do you really need anything else for legs? im not interested in being some crazy body builder--just want big, strong, meaty legs.
squats
do you really need anything else for legs? im not interested in being some crazy body builder--just want big, strong, meaty legs.
Not really no
Add a pure hinge (RDLs, good mornings, back extensions) for the hamstrings and you'll have great legs. If you want to go the extra mile you could add quad/adductor/hamstring isolation as well
calf isolations are necessary before the other ones
I was talking about just upper leg hypertrophy, but yes calves are extremely important. I'm hitting mine hard these days, they're growing very fast.
fuck I did good mornings yesterday and my hamstrings are on fire today
Depends on your build. If you have short legs and a long torso then yeah, otherwise no.
you might have to do some accessory training to correct any imbalances that can show up
For quads, yes, if you train legs more than once a week and do some decent ammount of volume. You still should include some for of deadlift at least to train your hamstrings and glutes
> im not interested in being some crazy body builder-just want big, strong, meaty legs
Yes that's what bodybuilding means
All you need is a hip hinging movement in additional to barbell back squats. So Hyperextensions, RDLs, or goodmornings.
But really you should see the squat as a whole collection of exercises and the deadlift as a whole collection of exercises and you do variations as needed. 1 single variation of backsquat won't be enough and 1 single variation of deadlift won't be enough for long term gains and health.
>I don't wanna train legs seriously, I just want to do a couple sets of Squats, will that be enough to make me not look like a chicken?
yes. that's literally what im asking. fuck off with ur sarcasm.
so say I did squats then good mornings one day then deadlifts and front squats the other leg day. is that all you really need?
Yes but I am not saying alternate the exercises like that I am saying progress on the backsquats and good mornings for a training block and then start progressing on the front squats and deadlifts when you have plateaued then switch back. During these blocks you are still doing all 4 exercises but your progression focus is just on one each for that muscle group. That is what I mean by having a collection of "squat" exercises and "hip hinge" exercises. So you would do Back and Front squats and goodmornings and deadlifts twice a week. But do the exercise you are progressing first with intensity and the other exercise with volume.
Why would you plateau so soon? Does anyone plateau on anything their first year of training?
I don't see anywhere in here where he says this is his first year of training. But even in a first year one might get bored of an exercise and that actually causes a sort of "mental" plateau where switching things up to a slightly different variation for a short block and then returning to their main lift could be beneficial.
Like go in on the first day and work up to a heavy single or double on backsquats try for a PR. then do 4x5 front squats at 60-70% of what you squated that day. Then do the ideally the Romanian deadlifts and work up to a heavy single or double (I personally prefer doubles in everything rarely going for singles) and then do your goodmornings. That is day 1. Day 2 go in for high volume on the back squats and do the same weight as the first day on the front squats. Then go for high volume on the RDL's and do the same weight as the first day for the goodmornings.
would you mind actually writing that out as a program?
I am actually interesting a little in the powerlifting side of things--I really want strong bench, squat, and deadlift. whats a good routine for that? but, with that said obviously I dont want to be a huge tub of lard who can lift heavy things. I would also like to look decent too. I realize I need to bulk and I am in the process of doing so.
currently 175lbs at 5'10 or 5'11. im also in my second year of lifting btw. bench 225 for 3, squat 225 for 5, and deadlift 285 for 5. pls help. anyone else can respond to this as well if they have an idea of what program might work for my goals.
I can't really write out a program these are more advanced concepts but I can tell you how I would approach training with your numbers to get higher squat and dead numbers.
You are clearly already decently trained with that bench. I feel like your squat and deadlift numbers are being held down not by a strength limitation but more a confidence in the lift through bad technique/form. Like the bracing of your core under these loads is likely not great. So I would go through volume blocks for each lift. You seem to be comfortable for 5 reps under 225lb for backsquat this is enough weight to be an effective stimulus. So I would start working on building that up to 225x12. At 225x12 your form on the back squat and comfort in the movement should be ready to test out a 1RM. At least 285 likely more like 295. Then I would work up to 245x12. This is going to build lots of size, work potential, and ensure that you know what you are doing with the lift. Same approach with the dead lifts.
Give a easy high volume ladder a try. Backsquat 20 reps at 135 18 reps at 145 16 reps at 155 14 reps at 165 12 reps at 175 10 reps at 185 8 reps at 195 6 reps at 205 4 reps at 215 2 reps at 225.
If you build up your work capacity and really lock in a good squat form you can hit 3 plate squat in no time.
yeah, I think you've really hit the nail on the head here. when I said I can squat 225 for 5, that's on a good day. somedays I can't even do it for one rep and even 135 feels heavy. im not sure what exactly my issue is, its just a hard movement for me. squashes the shit out of my traps, my bracing isn't the best and so maybe that's also why, and there's the confidence issue. the best cue ive discovered is looking straight ahead, rather than straight down.
as for deadlifts, I used to be able to do 305 for 5 but I was also using straps. Im trying to go strapless now, and increasing my grip strength. that's my biggest weakpoint with deadlifts. I am still using a belt though, I dont see much reason not to use one--am I really missing out on anything by using one?
If stuck on heavy weights? GO FOR VOLUME.
You need it especially on squats they are more "grind" than "strength" based exercise unlike something like OHP and Deadlift when done proper.
It takes time to learn to lift heavy under heavy loads. The load of a squat or a deadlift is entirely different from a bench press. after 225 your body is really telling you this is not a good place to be so you need to get comfortable with that. Bracing is one of the main things that brings that comfort. You need to be confident and know that your spine is protected because you are about to go under some "crushing death" as I like to call it. Definitely look straight ahead. Basically take in a gigantic breath and then brace and push your head back and hold it back. throughout the lift. Think of getting your spine as straight as possible which your neck is part of the spine so pushing it back really ques the whole thing to be tight and ridgid through the brace. hold the brace through the lift and don't exhale until at the top. you have to maintain a certain degree of tightness at the top when you exhale and then inhale and rebrace. This is one of the hardest things to learn and it is essential for eventually moving big loads under weight.
Just my opinion obsessing over strapped or not strapped isn't that beneficial. I am just personally not a fan of mixed grip so I do hook grip and my thumbs get murdered so I also use straps often but I don't train for powerlifting numbers. Straps have their place not using them is just ego shit. Like if you are going for high volume on deadlifts at a certain weight there is no way with a double overhand you are going to hit 12 reps. But you can still get ALOT out of the exercise if you do it with straps. So just do it with straps. Work on your grip elsewhere and be sure to also still test your deadlifts strapless. But mixing in straps is an essential part of programming. Get some fatgrips and do high volume low weight deadlifts with the fat grips. like sets of 12. Use the fatgripz during your warmups and the regular skinny bar will be much easier to grip.
Based reply.
A sad truth that many newer lifters have is that they simply won't push themselves and learn to get comfortable being uncomfortable. This will hold them back in the 2pl8 range for years because of the fear of having more weight than they feel they can handle on their backs. I've always suggested heavy walkouts and holds as well as overloaded partial squats as a finisher movement for those who haven't learned how to get their mind to get in line with their body's capabilities. After all, if you've never gone over the low/mid 200s, once you start getting used to doing 1/4 squats with 300, and drop the pins a notch every session or two to slowly increase ROM, it won't be more than a few months before most people are able to add 40+ lbs. on to their normal squat max.
And agreed on the strap thing (and for some idiots, the belt situation as well), the whole purist garbage is retarded since it'll only hold you back. What's to be gained by saying "I may only deadlift 315, and I may be capable of much more, but at least I don't use straps!" mindset since it'll ensure you stay weaker forever? People need to get over that shit - straps, like belts, partial ROM reps, etc. all have their place in building yourself up. I still remember laughing my ass off years ago when pro strongman Jesse Marunde (RIP) had a message board on his site, and some 20 year old douche was on there hyping himself up over how he thought everyone who used straps was an idiot. In response, at least a half dozen pro strongman competitors posted clips of themselves using straps doing deads, pull-ups. pulldowns and more and told the kid to take a fucking hike because if it was good enough for them, it was good enough for anyone.
The new generation of lifters coming up have some massive insecurity issues and listen to e-celeb gays way too much about these things and they base themselves off of meme concepts. Fuck that shit, if it helps you get stronger, use it.
Exactly. Also things like pin squats can go ALONG way. Not sure if it is called a pin squat but like where the bar is loaded on the the pins and the lifter starts from out of the hole. Alot closer to how someone would actually lift something with their back and legs. The whole idea of finding ways to overhead to get comfortable under higher loads to break plateaus is huge. Like having a lifter do a behind the neck push press and hold that weight overhead for as long as possible if they haven't broken an OHP record. Many methods can be used to gain experience under heavier and heavier loads that will assist in the mental for the loads under the real lift. Also It can be very beneficial to have it where basically unracking the weights is a partial lift in and of itself. Then your body and mind are already slightly attuned to moving this weight. heavy walkouts. heavy holds. especially front rack holds etc.
It is really insane with the straps dogma. Like I work up to my working weight with hook grip but my thumbs get butchered quick hook gripping. So I throw on straps and add MORE weight. and the lifts become more enjoyable. It is the same approach olympic weightlifters use nobody is going to tell them they are sissys or something for using straps. Imagine doing hip snatch pulls like in this video starting around 3:00 minutes in. Once you get to a certain weight the bar falling down would be virtually impossible to catch and explode back up without straps. Olympic weightifters practice their main lifts with hook grip as though it were for compettion but do their accessory work like clean deadlifts snatch deadlifts clean pulls RDL etc with straps. Their thumbs and grip get enough work through their snatches and cleans. If you know your grip is getting enough work through an exercise don't fear the straps.
Also strapping up to do sets of pullups is HIGHLY HIGHLY underrated for big guys.
>Not sure if it is called a pin squat but like where the bar is loaded on the the pins and the lifter starts from out of the hole.
This is called an anderson squat, you start from the top like a normal squat on pin squats, but anderson squats are bottom-up instead.
Right thank you. I knew it was some sort of name. They helped me a lot to feel comfortable under heavy weights. Just single reps up and then rack and then work on going up and then back down. Really great accessory/drill/technique work.
thanks, guys. I will take this all into account from now on. gotta start taking it serious or like
said, I will be squatting sub 2plates forever.
ditch the belt for now as you are not confident in your bracing. don't just go into your heavy reps without it though obviously work back up to those weights. you shouldn't need a belt until at least past 3 plate squat 3 plate dead.
Work all sorts of things with the 225 but occasionally go for higher on an intensity day. go for a heavy double 245 or 265 for example. But you want to build up work capacity with that 225. like get to the point where you are comfortable doing reps with 225 anywhere anytime. Your main progression should be in getting your reps with 225 up but mixing in intensity for the varied stimulus.
I will try your method though. so, should I just keep spam squatting 225 until I can eventually do it for more reps, rather than going up 5lbs every week ?
The key to bracing: Shut your mouth, bite against your own back teeth, take one quick sharp breath through your nose and let it fill your torso, then use that breath to lift the weight and as the weight is going up you can release the breath through the nose to gain some extra power through relaxation as your body exhales it moves outward for a bit allowing you to gain a minor advantage.
This is the same as the principles in martial arts and combat sports when throwing/taking a punch and technically what the "Kiai" is supposed to do or represent.
You can train legs seriously and only do squats
>Super Squats
>Smolov
>daily squat programs
>GVT
>Deepwater
>5/3/1 Building the Monolith
No, but only if you do them for full ATG ROM and a ton of them.
Calves too otherwise peg leg. Abductors and adductors help with filling out strength in that part of the body.
If you want good strength though you really need like three or four different exercises per muscle group to introduce sufficient variation to maximize growth. Fills in all the small places so to speak.
I'd rather do bss instead. My quads are outpaced by my ass if I just do barbell back squats
BSS better glute activator than back squat
Yes but chances are you are going to have imbalances and weaknesses. You should also do some type of hip hinge, aka RDL's if you don't care about deadlift numbers.
I have weak quads, strong hamstrings and posterior chain in general. To correct that I needed to do more than just squats.
Squats are probably key. But you're doing yourself a disservice if you don't also do lunges and calf raises. I'm starting to work in some Nordic curls but I have a LONG way to go before I can do one concentric.
Yes, go for Squats and Lunge Squats for maximum leg gains.
You know if you're lazy it's a lot easier to do everything else apart from squats.
>Pendulum or hack squat
>Leg extensions
>Hamstring curls
>Calf raises
This is pretty easy too or the kettlebell squat hell, just repeat swings to squats till tired every other day or every day, shit's going to build your legs and some of the CNS related shit, plus give you an ability to accelerate really fast.
My hamstrings blew up doing kettle bell swings; if OP is after general athletics fitness and muscular balance with barbell squats, KB swings are a fantastic choice
That's a shit graphic.
Quads - Bulgarian Split Squats, short stride lunges, hack squats
Hammies - Leg curls and RDLs
These are your best options if you don't wanna do proper quad dominant squats like platz squats.
Honestly, it all depends on your squat technique. I have long femurs and my squat style isn't conducive to building big quads (I squat 500+ for singles and 400 for sets of 8 no problem, so it's not a strength issue).
So for me, my hams grew from squats to a degree but quads just weren't that impressive. If you have short femurs and can keep more upright vs. having a considerably hard forward lean when squatting, you might find squats alone are enough, but individual anatomy will dictate this, not everyone will get the same response to squats depending on your technique and build.
Solution was to no longer do only squat-based training but ALWAYS start with my normal squat style and then add in other work. So for me, it'll be something like this from last session:
>back squat to parallel, work up to 3x5 @ 430 lbs.
>Heels elevated narrow stance squats for 3x12 @ 315 to better activate quads
>Goblet squats with heels elevated, 3x15 @ 120 lbs.
>high-rep Bulgarian split squats with bodyweight only, 3x30 each leg
>seated leg curls for 3-4 sets or banded seated leg curls for 3-4 sets for last hamstring work
Of course, I deadlift once a week as well and add in RDLs or Good Mornings as my secondary movement after standard deadlifts with low reps to round it out. Legs have added a few inches in size over the past year since I changed things up.
Enjoy your bulging disc plus herniatic Plus sciatic
Free weights: Squats and Deadlifts
Bodyweight: Reverse Nordic Curls and Nordic Curls
Cardio: Roonning
you don't need anything else for legs
>Bodyweight: Reverse Nordic Curls and Nordic Curls
Based, I love nordic curls so much.
Sure, but you're likely to eventually run into problems with quads being significantly stronger than your posterior chain which can lead to lower back injuries which in turn can fuck months of progress. Why not add trap bar deads or better yet, stiff legged ones? Easy to learn, good mix.
Squats also do nothing for calves if that matters to you.
If I could only do one leg exercise it would be split squats (not BSS though, too hard to load heavy). Way better glute abductor and once you can lunge/split squat 315 you have abductors made of steel. Also less risk of back injury since you stay more upright and only need to use enough weight for one leg at a time.
The need to double you sets just teaches conditioning. More similar to sports. Knee to ground in a perfect primer for depth. It has everything.
Hip Thrusts for that nice ass
Best cardio for big leg squaters? I like tabatas on exercise bike, stair master and hiking for LISS. But I havn't found anything that is that middleground cardio not HIIT or LISS like a nice 10k jog that I enjoy.
Jacob's Ladders are brutal
Nice I'v never used one. There was a thing at my old gym that emulated sled push that was pretty dope. Like you walked on the thing and pushed the ground backwith your legs. God I loved that thing. Pic related but the one at my gym could also load plates to do farmers walks. Thing was awesome. Loved using it didn't hinder recovery at all. Like pushing a sled around for 5-10 minutes straight. Loved the thing. This thing in my pic is apparently called SledMill not sure if there is a more universal name for them.
This shit here. This shit is fucking cash if you obliterate your legs lifting.
QQ
I run and I cycle after sets or on "rest" days
I stopped doing an entire Leg day sadly as my routine doesnt allow it
if I'm gonna do casual squats again (1pl8), and I want to, should I do them on PUSH or PULL?
Push, since squats are anterior-chain dominant
I'm really happy that
A) I got a proper (you)
and
B) that proper (you) provided an answer and an explanation
I know my way around food, so I'll reply 5 food questions to return the favor in some other thread to some random anons, cheers anon
No problem bro, helping other anons is one of my favorite things to do on here. I'm more of a training-autist myself but I've been learning about diet a bit more lately as well
Something for calves, shin, and hamstrings
I like adding in some front squats on my deadlift day, and on squat days after my RDLs I'll hit the leg press because it is just an easy way to rape your quads at the end, then I'll lower the weight and do calf extension shit on the leg press. I don't know if I need to do all the extra work but I enjoy it and don't feel beat up from it.
Just did 50 squats for the first time today.
Started the week with 20.
Probably gay tier compared to people in here but I'm proud nonetheless.
i'm 5'11 and anytime i squat i feel it in my lower back and nothing else. no butt wink and i always hit depth and keep good form. what gives?
I did barbell squats for years and finally got smart and realized they were a waste of time. Now I just do RDLs and Bulgarian split squats.
Even if you're invested in getting bigger legs like an actual bodybuilder, you can train nearly optimally with one lift per muscle or per muscle function. So some kind of squat which best enables full quad ROM for quads, then RDLs for glutes & hams, leg curl to hit the knee flexion function of the hamstring, (their other function).
There's also hip adduction machine (pushing your legs together). These are important if you actually want to compete in bodybuilding because when you get really lean, if you haven't been really lean before, the fat on your inner thighs disappears & suddenly you've got this thigh gap which hip adduction would've prevented by building muscle in that area & significantly improving inner thigh thickness from the front & back.
Obviously calf raises for calves.
Only thing you're missing is a quad movement with no hip action to work the rectus femoris (leg extensions or sissy squats) since the rectus femoris doesn't do all that much during squats. And technically hip flexors and abductors should be hit as well but people don't really care about those besides mega autists.
Besides that you're dead on
>do you really need anything else for legs?
Running at any speed and you're done
I like the machines for legs too.
Isolation on leg is pretty based
I do squats and calf raises. When I work out at home I have a barbell with a set weight so I squat on my toes.
split squats
deadlifts
lunges
cable hip thrusts
Might need squatting shoes or a foot wedge if you have ankle mobility problems.
If you get groin tweaks or knee instability hit the ass/pussy machine (adductor & abductor).
Be sure to train your lower back and posterior chain too. This could be either deadlifts, machines, or low bar squats.
what squats are best? front or back?
i personally like front more, my body seems to behave better
Leg extensions for rectus femoris quad muscle
Hamstring curls
Calf raises
Hip thrust