>starting strength is a meme program
>ripptoe is a squatism fraud
>majority of SS coaches are on clinical testosterone injections
what's a training program that isn't shit that actually yields aesthetic results in a short amount of time?
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you already know it baby
he was also using PEDs, why is his program better?
it...IT JUST IS, OKAY?
You guys are so stupid, I don't know why YouTube decided to algo him back into popularity
same reason noobs gravitated to him back when heavy duty came out. bodybuilder who says its easy to be a bodybuilder and you can eat shit tons of carbs and only have to spend 15 minutes at the gym.
Why would you do a program designed to increase mass and strength in an untrained football player in a short time frame if your goal is aesthetics?
I was lead to believe that the fastest way to produce size is to produce strength (that size was a side effect of strength)
What's a better program I need to follow to focus on size and aesthetics?
Then join rip's club cus based on that post, you're just another fraud
>I was lead to believe that the fastest way to produce size is to produce strength (that size was a side effect of strength)
?
Who told you that? Wait, you're American, aren't you?
It was rip himself and yes I am an American and no I am not too proud of it either.
What's a program do to get visibly jacked with clothes on?
>What's a program do to get visibly jacked with clothes on?
Steroids
If you want visibly jacked with clothes on you are looking at the late intermediate stage. That will not happen quickly so experiment and see what you like
>size was a side effect of strength
It's literally the opposite. Off season strength athletes basically train like bodybuilders for this reason, then switch to a periodised peaking program prior to competition.
ok how can I know the details of their protocols to meme them myself?
You're bouncing between two extremes.
I don't want a perfect program and I can't follow the completely vague notion of "just lift bro whatever go by feels" either. Why can't there be a simple checklist approach that is neither perfect nor random?
I have been not adding weight to my squat and deadlift on purpose to avoid t-rex mode, and when I did add, I added 2.5 lb at a time.
Is it more fair to say that I maybe be 7 weeks into the program if that makes more sense?
>What fraudulent principles?
the ones you just mentioned, they don't contribute towards increasing size for someone natty
No clean, no row, not adding the prescribed weight, not eating the prescribed diet, adding random additional exercises, yet still blaming the program for your issues?
>they don't contribute towards increasing size for someone natty
They do just as much as anything else, hypertrophy changes based on muscular fatigue (until you go too light), not on number of reps.
Sets of 5 are just fine, and those strength routines maximize your fatigue to the point you have to eventually drop the volume, you can't really get more fatigued than that. BTW, if you aren't feeling muscle fatigue during the program, there's something very wrong happening, and you aren't doing the program.
You can think of working 8s or 12s once you need to add a light day, it's really that simple.
youre a filthy esl shut the frick up esl
>the fastest way to produce size is to produce strength
That's true, in untrained males at least, and if you don't care too much about part of that size being fat, BUT
once you're strong enough that you aren't growing by looking at a barbell, but need complex programming... look at the OP pic, once you're intermediate or past that, it can be more effective to work with percentages below 70% of 1RM.
We know that below 70% you won't really develop your maximal strength, and that if you leave it without training it will drop, so SOME strength training will be useful (or, you'll eventually lose the strength and size), but we also know that you can gain size by going close to failure with weights at 30% and above, it's just kind of a pain.
If you want to be fricking optimal, you should train for strength as soon as you've just recovered, and train with bullshit low weight every 36h to elevate protein synthesis and facilitate that recovery.
Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
>working with below 70% 1RM once you are an intermediate
but that's also part of the intermediate programming in the grey book with things like back off sets, HLM and the compressed texas method, all of which are the work of a fraud. Whats a program to actually achieve clothes-jacked physique while natty in a say less than a year?
I have read both the blue and grey books, barbell prescription and Mean ol mr gravity
My numbers right now are:
14 Weeks into the program, Friday, Sunday, Tuesday
Height 171 cm
Weight 71 kg
Deadlift 77 kg
Squat 61 kg
Bench 50 kg
Press 34 kg
Chin ups 3x7 with rubber band
what exactly am I fricking up?
no goal can be achieved unless it's bound by some tangible time frame. Let's say 1-2 years?
>what exactly am I fricking up?
Not eating enough. I also note there is no data in relation to rows or cleans, therefore you are not following the program
I have an 11 inch standing vertical jump, so I am not doing cleans, but instead of doing rows I was doing a lite deadlift at 80% of my last effective deadlift 1x5 up until last week. As of now I am doing seated cable rows, my last set was 3x8 at 27 kg
Why would a change in one lift invalidate the entire program?
>time to eat
I am already bulking, I used to be 66 kg before the program
I refuse to rely on eating more food as a crutch solution to automatically fix any lack of progress. Shit's a lazy band aid solution
>actually add 5lbs every workout
I have actually been adding 2.5 lbs every workout and have been lagging my squat behind on purpose to avoid squatism and Trex mode
What's a good process to follow then that would actually yield the desired outcome?
why are your numbers so low then? time to eat up and and actually add 5lbs every workout.
Why are you in such a rush anyway? why not be process oriented instead of goal oriented? You will make it regardless if you are just consistent and apply progressive overload and actually gain weight. You need to weigh at least 180lbs at that height to maybe look like lift, preferably more.
>need to weigh at least 180lbs at that height to maybe look like lift, preferably more
you dont need to be overweight to look like you lift. you just beed to spam curls, wrist curls and extensions at all workouts .
>what exactly am I fricking up
Your weight and your lifts.
Those are rookie numbers.
You gotta increase those numbers.
How the frick are you more than 3 months in, and not even a 2 plates deadlift?
I have been lagging behind my deadlift and squat on purpose to avoid trex mode, and I have only been adding 2.5 lbs to my upperbody lifts because I have girly upper body Anthropometry.
>shut the frick up and go lift weights
I absolutely love this idea but it sounds too vague and general, another hallmark of the frauds.
Is the plan to just wing it randomly for 5 years ?
There has to be road map to follow
Ok but what exactly do you mean by "back and biceps" for example?
there are a hundred exercises for each and for both. Do I rotate between them randomly?
OP here, this isn't OP. Lean twink mode who looks DYEL while clothed is a shitty goal
>lagging behind my deadlift and squat on purpose
They aren't lagged anymore as of now according to the numbers above, I still have 6 months in the program supposedly
homie I already have read the sticky
My question in OP wasn't "tell me why I am doing the program wrongly" it was "I have already concluded that SS is a fraud's program and am now looking for a better program.
you recommending to me the sticky program is a shit response since first, I am not stalled on added weight to the lifts, and second, the program in the sticky is also based on the same fraudulent SS principles
>Starting Strength into Texas Method
but first that's contradictory with "just shut up and lift" and second, both methods are based of off fraudulent principles
>progressive overload and periodization are fraudulent methods
What did he mean by this?
>both methods are based of off fraudulent principles
What fraudulent principles?
3 sets are on the low side, but 4 to 5 would be optimal (that's one of those margins I mentioned), 5 reps are good for max strength without being so low it just fries your CNS and you can't recover, lifting often, as often as you can recover, is literally the golden rule... Where's the fraud?
You don't like the author's, that's fine, but the basics of their methods check out.
Man, you're deadlifting your bodyweight. That's... kinda good for the general population, but for someone training for strength, it sucks. Shut up and lift, at least for this first phase. Read up, in the meanwhile.
If you wait until you know enough sports science to make your own program, that's a lot of wasted time.
Can we assume that once you do you'll want to bring your squat to 140kgs, at least? Good, you can get that squat WHILE you learn, do both at the same time, you'll get results faster.
You claim to be 14 weeks in. Assuming 5lb increase per session as stated in the program, starting with an empty bar that would put your squat at 255lb. So you're full of shit.
Obviously he didn't manage to make the jumps and has been repeatedly deloading.
>, I am not stalled on added weight to the lifts
READ THE FRICKING STICKY YOU IDIOT
ANY linear beginner program (SS/SL5x5/whatever) will work. Milk it and switch to an intermediate program (like TM, Madcow, 5/3/1) when you can’t progress anymore.
Eat right, sleep right, and exercise consistently.
STOP POSTING ELSE NGMI
>There has to be road map to follow
Starting Strength into Texas Method.
Meanwhile, read independent sports science researches, you'll see that that's all true and works, up to a point.
That becomes more important as you go advanced, but by then you'll know better.
The program is just fine for beginners, overthinking will be needed later.
>I absolutely love this idea but it sounds too vague and general, another hallmark of the frauds.
>Is the plan to just wing it randomly for 5 years ?
>There has to be road map to follow
That's where your wrong, it really is that simple, just shut the frick up and go lift weights.
You waiting for the "perfect program" and "needing to do all this research for the perfect path", is you just making excuses to pussy out of doing what needs to be done, lifting weights.
Do you think it's some kind of rocket science to do bench press, bicep curls and squat when you aren't tired?
This shit isn't hard, you are just looking for excuses NOT to lift,
People with double digit iq understand this simple concept better than you do, if you want improve your physique, the answer is simple, go fricking lift.
People like you are super common, we see you all the time, and honestly, I fricking hate people like you, because you aren't actually interested in lifting weights at all, you are interested in the IDEA of lifting weights, but you have zero intention of actually lifting weights.
Talking about lifting weights is a way of mentally jerking off to the idea of doing something instead of actually doing it, by talking about doing something all day instead of actually doing it, you are tricking yourself into pretending you are actually doing the thing when you really aren't doing shit.
Shut the frick up, go get a dumbell, and start doing some bicep curls you fricking pussy, buy a brench press and a barbell and start doing bench and squats you fricking pussy, stop talking and wasting everyone's time and using a pre-stablished community to stroke your own ego by pretending talking is achieving anything and go fricking lift.
/thread
Someone should make an IQ bell curve meme for this shit, midwits are the worst dyels
Kys OP
Kek, judging by your lifts you'll never even reach Tobey's level.
In fact his body is what dyels think can be achieved with just a few pushups, whereas the reality is that they'd never achieve this level even if they spent multiple years giving it their all.
Tldr: you're not gonna make it, gay
only way you can draw that far a conclusion from the data given is it was drawn out of your ass
Or just by being older, smarter and more experienced than some zoomie midwit (not very hard)
>There has to be road map to follow
With all due disrespect, c**ts like you faf about programs and best results and other bullshit, then quit in 3 months. How about you work on consistency and applying yourself for the first six months - and then worry about best split and optimal nutrition. Getting jacked takes years - and my money is on you quitting before the Holidays.
TL;DR just fricking lift, bro
based
Everyone in this thread telling op "bro just stfu and lift"
meanwhile op
>no0o0o0o it can't be that simple you have to tell me the secret magic routine for working out so they I can get super ripped without actually having to put in work!!!!!
It really is *just that simple*, you lift weight, muscles grow, you don't need to buy the latest fitness magazines, you don't need to listen to all the fitness podcasts, you don't need to buy all the fancy supplements and pre-workouts, you don't need to buy the perfect routine from some bozo on instagram, you need to go and LIFT SOME FRICKING WEIGHTS
But you won't lift weights, because it is you who is the real fraud, you are the guy who is constantly talking about lifting, but never actually lifts.
spoken like a real teenager.
imagine if this applied to other things in life.
>you don't need to learn how to drive a car just drive bro
>you don't need to learn budget your monthly spending just buy bro
only reason you are anti-identification is that you can't handle finding out that you can't handle the weight of the responsibility of realizing that you've been half assing it the entire time
And you're like
>but the driving instructor drives an illegal japanese racing mod, I drive a beater, who will teach me to drive the beater?
The driving instructor, fool.
>Ok but what exactly do you mean by "back and biceps" for example?
You're overthinking it. YES Black person, rotate randomly if you want. But just do something.
There's no magic program with just the right combinations of rows and curls and pulldowns in a specific order for specific reps that will work to the exclusion of all others. Just fricking lift.
>clothes-jacked physique while natty in a say less than a year?
That's basically impossible, but let's go instead for "an obvious, if hard to measure, improvement in muscularity".
All those routines will give you that, because while optimizing muscle gain is hard, getting a good amount of it isn't so difficult.
AFAIK all research backs those programs.
You COULD reinvent the wheel, just to know what are the margins for optimization... They are minimal, and not worth exploring. We're talking about 1 extra set, or resting for a few extra hours. Maybe switching to 4 or 6 reps.
Mickey Mouse shit you could ignore and just go lift.
If you want to maximize something, check out what you can do to maximize your recovery, and get back to actually doing the program.
Dios mio what are you doing Black person, I can lift more than you as an untrained 55kg skelly
I have a 11 inch standing vertical jump. I am not surprised if I don't measure up in absolute pound-to-pound comparisons. I am also not stuck on any of the lifts and I am capable of increasing my numbers with enough time.
But now I am disillusioned from fraudulent SS methods and am seeking alternative training methods to achieve size directly (not as a side effect of strength)
>no clean
what's the point if my standing vertical jump is 11 inches?
>no row
I added the rows recently
>not adding the prescribed weight
and get T-rex mode?
>not eating the prescribed diet
I have, I used to be 66 kgs. You aren't seriously recommending that I get stronger by bloatmaxxing are you?
>adding random additional exercises
Lite deadlift was recommended by an SS coach on the Strength Club podcast. Seated cable rows are not random and are mechanically very similar to the standing barbell rows described in the blue book
>yet still blaming the program for your issues?
yes because it's fraudulent and doesn't correspond to increases in size for natties
>Ad hominem
>IQ larping
>status jockeying instead of formulating cohesive statements
ironic
I get you but my point is that all of these programming details don't work for the average natties. Both Rip, Mentzer, and all of their coaches are using some form of gear
>don't work for the average natties.
There are a good bit of success stories online tho.
People got bigger and stronger for sure. Some drastically so.
The old men are on gear...ok, but we aren't talking about their results as lifters, but as coaches, and it's not like they're sending gear to everybody that does starting strength (or they just skipped me, idk)
I went from 70kg-98kg, my squat went from literally the bar to 130kg, bench from the bar to 90kg, ohp from less than the bar to 60kg, and deadlift from 60kg to 140kg in 9 months of SS.
I did not nor have i ever frauded. I am still dyel. However, i am significantly stronger. I'm current 84kg with 140 squat, 170 dead, 70kg ohp and 110kg bench.
You are not doing SS and you are not eating enough
>This guy OHP is more than Op's deadlift
No bullying!
Oh and i will post body.
I squat less than you, bench more than you, I don't ohp or deadlift, but I look considerably less dyel. I guess strength training is a meme.
My cope is I'm 6'4. Either way it's pretty funny being dyel as frick in bjj yet manhandling dudes
Start a bro split
I posted a bro split for him and he cried and said that many exercises would hurt his hand extensor tendons lmao this guy has no intention of lifting just talking about it and larping about how he will lift one day once he finishes theorycrafting the "perfect" program
I know this and none of the YNDTPs mentioned apply to me.
your height and standing vertical jump are obviously higher than mine and you defiantly haven't lagged the weights behind because you're not concerned with T-rex mode. So this response doesn't apply to me at all.
I know how the program is supposed to be run, it is just that it doesn't yield the result it promises for a below average genetics natty without gear or without becoming a bottom heavy t-rex.
Therefore the OP was posted to discuss a program that actual produces size given the constraints mentioned before
>refuses to do the program
>complains that it doesn't work
>"It's my height, it's my genetics, I don't want to actually get stronger"
eat a bullet
1. Because I don't want T-rex mode.
2. I am complaining that I've been tricked. The program only works when on gear.
3. Those things deterministic
I did SS then Texas Method. couple of years progress.
140 kg squat. 160 kg deadlift, 60kg OHP, 90 kg bench.
if you spent as much time as you do talking about lifting and consuming lifting literature and media and actually put that same effort into actually lifting weights you would actually be getting results and wouldn't be having any problems in the first place
Everyone ITT is right, your biggest problem is you need to stfu, turn off your brain and just lift more
ok I'll bite.
I am standing in the gym right now in my gym clothes, palms chalked, brain off.
wat do?????
>6'4"
I'm 5'7" with bad anthropomerty, and that's why your numbers are much higher than mine at roughly the same point along the program's timeline (in addition to the intentional lagging I did)
I don't know what that mean so I'm going to just assume you're a lookism incel who is going to come up with some bullshit excuse no matter what people tell you I'm out
>confuses physiology with lookism
>proposes following random plan
>can't describe random plan
>believes random inputs can lead to not random outputs for any system at all
good riddance, either way you think like a Black person would and all of your replies were off-topic since the start.
>ok I'll bite.
>I am standing in the gym right now in my gym clothes, palms chalked, brain off.
>wat do?????
Step1: Pick a muscle group to work out
Step2: Lift weights targeting that muscle group
Example:
Day1: I'm in the gym, guess I'll work out chest and triceps, time for bench press, dumb bell press, cable flies and some standing overhead extensions
Day 2: I did chest yesterday, so today I'll do back and biceps, time for some deadlifts, barbell and dumb-bell rows, seated cable rows, t-bar rows and some shrugs
Day 3: I've done chest and tris, back and bis, guess I'll do shoulders/legs today, time for some ohp, lat raises and upright rows and finish with some squat
Everything has been worked out, my chest has fully recovered, guess what that means, start the entire process all over again, or if body feels like it needs a rest take day off and begin process again tomorrow instead, or instead of rest day do an abs day, repeat forever.
>do lifts in day one
>hand extensor tendons now painfully
swollen because too much volume
>wat do????
apology declined as you are not important enough commit something office nor for your apology to have any weight in the first place. Proceed on above
>>do lifts in day one
>>hand extensor tendons now painfully swollen because too much volume
>>wat do????
Sounds like you got a case of being a little b***h, what I posted was a normal workout routine that any grandpa could handle, you have no intention of lifting, you will never get results because you are a weak willed homosexual that makes an excuse for everything, keep putting of lifting while you search for the "perfect" program instead of just lifting iron you little b***h
My response was based on an actual previous experience I had myself. I tried doing a high volume program with multiple barbell and dumbbell exercises and my right hand got swollen after the first month of running that kind of program.
It isn't theory crafting and I am not looking for something perfect
>can't be trusted not to injure himself with a basic routine
Just ice it
>cannot be trusted to do basic program
>basic program is garbage
>get injuried
>get stalled recovering from injury
>aggregate micro injuries across the years doing random shit
>get permanent injury
yeah believe it or not, a novice doesn't have enough experience under his belt to figure it out completely on his own
You're just a little b***h making up excuses, no one else has these problems, never in my many years of lifting have I ever seen anyone at the gym cry and complain about "painful extensor tendons" because they did some bench press and accessories, just give up, stop larping, you are never going to make it, you're all talk and everyone itt knows it
you're right I am very weak and I have an 11 vertical but now you're the one who's spouting blackpill incel doomer talk.
Don't tell me that you're getting emotionally invested in this thread
I completely agree, but now I'm lost
SS is based on fraud and not SS programs are not doable. what now?
lmao im a "black pill incel doomer" because I'm telling you to stop being a whiny little b***h and to just go lift weights?
You have no hope
>SS is based on fraud
You are almost right.
SS is based.
Jokes aside, all beginners programs look like SS, you don't like it, we've understood that, but those programs?
They're all the same.
Changing power cleans to rows of adding some curls doesn't change shit in the big scheme.
You need this kind of program, so that by the time you know how a program should work you're part the simple beginner phase, and can customize your routine to your needs.
I told you already, you eventually will want to squat 3 plates, and bench 2, right? Get there with SS, it's as close to optimal as you can get without a personal coach.
By the time you stall out, you'll have read up all you need to, but also have 6+months of gains in you.
Or you could start reading now, with no experience to help you understand, and wait until next year to start lifting. You won't be optimal anyway, because you won't have any experience to draw on.
So... yeah, for now just get down and squat.
Trust the program, and don't do bullshit like not progressing your lower body.
how can you prove that when almost all SS coaches are using testosterone?
Because I don't give a shit about old men being on gear.
I care about their coaching, are their athletes on gear too? What about the guys reporting back online with their gains, are they all roiding up at 18? Am I seriously the only one that has missed the test fairy?
You went and did a high volume thing.
We told you to do SS.
You got hurt.
Could that have anything to do with the fact that novices wouldn't do high volume, because their connective tissue isn't ready yet?
SS carries some risk too, but that can be moderated by learning there proper forms, that are also in the book.
i didn't say high volume, i told you just bro split. Your upper body is clearly lacking. eat and lift. personally im doing HIT nowadays but i lift for 8 years.
>I did FOUR exercises and now my HAND EXTENSOR TENDONS are so PAINFUL and SWOLEN, I think I'll need to take a week off from exercise now it's so painful I can't even open the lid on my onions beverage or jerk off my boyfriend OY VEY
>14 weeks
>deadlifting 77 kg
toppest of keks
Post breasts
I know I have girly numbers, is it really my fault that I have an 11 inch standing vertical jump?
wasted trips
yeah you are when you present me the two options of either run into the meat grinder blindfolded or quit cus I'm hopeless
I did the following program and got injured
AxBxCxx
>A
Squat
Alternate Pulls ups and a Row variant
Alternate Bench and OHP
Curls
>B
Deadlift
Alternate Pulls ups and a Row variant
Alternate Bench and OHP
Skull Crushers or double rope tricep pushdowns
>C
Squat
Alternate Pulls ups and a row variant
Alternate Bench and OHP
Lateral Raises
what's a better program that isn't traditional SS ?
I save my pull variants for pull day (deadlift) and push variants for push day (bench) and squat is its own day as well. They each get hit twice a week. I dont mix the push and pull motions, see? Not because of a fancy brosplit, just because I like to keep the similar movements confined to the day so I can focus on them
Sometimes you get injured or things hurt for a little while, it's not the end of the world, I popped my shoulder out once doing dumbell shoulder press but you don't see me being a little b***h about it, I worked around it and took it easy for a month then got straight back into it, I've hurt my back lifting and once it was good again straight back into it no problem, stfu and go lift pussy
>clothes-jacked physique while natty in a say less than a year?
Impossible.
>what exactly am I fricking up?
Your entire life bc you’ve wasted 14 weeks on beginner weights. Try being a man who actually tries at something before you come in here complaining that you don’t look like a Greek god immediately after touching a barbell for the first time
and then get stuck with T-rex mode?
No we are both driving the same car but he is taking drugs that enhance his reaction time.
This alters his methods and technique procedures because they are now dependent on the presence of the drug in the driver's system. His methods are now inaccessible to me cus I'm not taking the same drug.
the gear compromises the reproducability of his their methods to a weak lifter like me with an 11inch vertical jump
>What about the guys reporting back online with their gains
literally who?
>literally who?
Reddit holds quite a few of such stories.
You should go check it.
>This alters his methods and technique procedures because they are now dependent on the presence of the drug in the driver's system. His methods are now inaccessible to me cus I'm not taking the same drug.
Yeah, but he's also an instructor that has taught many other students successfully and without drugs.
That's more important to me.
Nobody said you had to do starting strength. Do a PPL routine or some other thing. You aren’t even trying. After 3 months you are only barely deadlifting your body weight and you can’t even bench your body weight. You either don’t even try to lift heavy, or you don’t eat enough or you don’t sleep. Put in some actual effort and work before complaining
Holy shit. Those lift numbers are lower than my day one at the gym numbers at the same body weight.
You clearly didn't read the blue book. My lifts are more than double yours after 3 months. You are too weak and small for anything you are asking about to matter. Put more weight on the fricking bar
If you are worried about how you look then spam curls at the end of the workouts
how to avoid t-rex mode?
I stalled my lifts on purpose that's why my numbers are low (am also weak)
Add arms to the end of the workouts. T rex mode is a meme. Big legs don't look bad, small upper bodies look bad.
As for your weak lifts, probably eat more. Bulking is real. But also when is the last time you actually failed a lift? As in pushed for 3 full seconds and the bar didn't move up at all?
You are overthinking things. The fitness industry likes to complicate shit because it makes them money. Just lift
>Add arms to the end of the workouts
ok
> But also when is the last time you actually failed a lift? As in pushed for 3 full seconds and the bar didn't move up at all?
my very last Bench at 50 kgs failed after 4th rep and my band assisted chin ups failed on 7th rep (I was aiming for 3x8).
I have not failed any other lifts.
>YES Black person, rotate randomly if you want. There's no magic program
ok
yeah. Good thing that's not me, since I have read the books
am not! I squat with TWO Terribly-useful-piece-of-wood and I genuinely enjoy how good deadlifting feels
Then you clearly didn't read the book as he explicitly states the program is designed to increase mass and strength of a completely untrained trainee. This alao leads me to believe you didn't actually do the program and just yolod some shit loosely based on your misconception of the program.
Size is a result of both strength gained by intensity and the conventional body building approach through volume and isolation. Both have a place
Because IST claims this is what he should do?
Because this place is full of morons that either don't know what they want or don't even realize there's a difference.
>I was lead to believe
>Because IST claims this is what he should do?
And here are morons 1 and 2 right on cue, just like I said.
>in a short amount of time
Ngmi
>aesthetic results in a short amount of time
impossible unless you roid
Beginners shouldn't do starting strength because, BEGINNERS WILL MAKE STRENGTH GAINS NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO.
The book is called "starting strength", NOT "You should start with strength", this is where you morons get everything mixed up, these programs are best suited for SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY BEEN LIFTING FOR A LONG TIME AND HAS BEGUN TO STALL ON THEIR HYPERTROPHY TRAINING AND WANTS TO START A STRENGTH PROGRAM SO THEY CAN BREAK THROUGH PLATEUES.
A beginner who wants to lift to improve their physique should just be going to the gym and doing a variety of exercises focusing on hypertrophy in the 8-12 rep range doing your typical "bro-split" chest-tricep day, back-bicep day, shoulder day, leg day, style program where they will enjoy both strength gains AND physique gains.
A beginner "starting strength", with no prior lifting background will only end up injured and disenfranchised with lifting when they have no noticeable visible change in physique.
Look at the type of people at the gym who actually get impressive physiques, is it the morons on IST who do 5x5 squats twice per week and then go home to eat 10,000 calories a day and b***h on the internet about how "bicep curls and isolation exercises are useless" and how "you can only make it if you take roids"?
No, the people with the best physiques are the ones that just go to the gym everyday to pick up iron and start pumping weights as hard as they can.
You want big biceps?
Start pumping as many bicep curls as you possibly can.
Want big traps?
Start shrugging 20kg plates
Want a big chest and triceps?
Hit the bench press everyday.
De-programme yourself from ISTs shitty ideas of what a programme should look like, the bodybuilders of the old days knew the best way to grow muscle was simple, "shut the frick up and go lift weights", that's how you grow muscles idiot.
OP here. Yeah I'm not reading all that.
Got any program recommendations?
I just want to be lean and muscular, but nothing too crazy.. basically like Tobey Maguire's Spiderman physique.
Eat clen and tren hard.
If that's the case then I recommend you read this post
and shut the frick up and go lift iron you moron, you are literally a walking embodiment of the so!jack on the left, spend less time talking and more time lifting you dumb frick.
Bench Press 5x5
Incline Bench Press 4x8-12
Barbell Rows 5x5
Lat Pulldowns 4x8-12
Shoulder Press 4x8-12
Bicep Isolation Exercise 4x8-12
Tricep Isolation Exercise 4x8-12
Repeat twice a week, eat proper, see ez gains
>these programs are best suited for SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY BEEN LIFTING FOR A LONG TIME AND HAS BEGUN TO STALL ON THEIR HYPERTROPHY TRAINING AND WANTS TO START A STRENGTH PROGRAM SO THEY CAN BREAK THROUGH PLATEUES.
Completely wrong. SS isn't going to work for someone who's already been lifting regularly for some time. The program isn't marketed this way either. It's intended for completely untrained lifters which is the only reason it works at all.
This.
The best advice is literally "shut the frick up and just go lift weights you god damn moron".
Diet until sub 12% bodyfat.
In aesthetics leanness is king. If you want to look good you should focus more on your waistline and your plate and less in your gym routine.
Also, after reading all the posts about rutines and shit, this is it.
For example I am currently doing rehab on my left elbow for a bad tendinitis so I just focus on cardio, legs and abs for now and all my other lifts are done just with my right side (curls, rows, ...). Will I get uneven lats? I don't care. There is no manual. Do what you want that aligns with your goal. Get consistency and you're golden.
Something concrete, do PPL and go to the gym thrice per week
So Monday is Pull (back and biceps)
Rest
Wednesday Push (chest shoulders triceps)
Rest
Friday Legs (legs and abs)
Make sure you do the heavy compounds, ie ohp, bench press, squats and deadlifts.
Too low frequency.
You should be lifting heavy as soon as your muscles aren't fatigued anymore.
Can you bench so heavy that you'll be fatigued for 6 days? Really?
Even if you can, as a natty guy, you'd be better off don't a few extra sets on other days too, to aid in recovery.
Recovery is king bro
I can't do six day PPL for example, it's too much for me. Currently going four times a week
Deadlifts
BB rows
Lat pulldowns
Hammer curls
>can't do six day PPL for example, it's too much for me
Of course, but of the extra 2 days were like Texas Method rest days, maybe you could.
Think 2-3x5 on the main exercises at 80% of what you hit for volume, out just frick it 2-3x12 reps at 30% of 1RM.
Not even getting a pump, just pushing blood around and stretching your legs.
Ofc you could just do a short jog, and get probably the same effect, or better if for example you could jog in a park or near nature.
And I'm sorry for being rude earlier, I know it can be tough for newbie lifters to learn what to do, but honestly the best thing a newbie can do is just go to the gym and try out lots of exercises until they find what works for them, and imo the 8-12 rep range is also a much better for beginners than 5 rep range, you WILL make strength gains no matter what, but 8-12 will get you visible results that a 5 rep range wont, while also making strength gains as well, swap to a strength based 5x5 program AFTER you stop making newbie gains, you can make strength gains as a beginner for a solid year or two before you start stalling
>cut ohp, replace w/bench
>switch SBD to HLM, progress each level of intensity independently
>HLM each day setup i.e. Monday H: squat, M: bench, L: dead, etc.
>add 1x backoff set to S&B at ~double the reps of your top set target, to failure
>on L days for a lift add accessories for that category (i.e. on bench L day add push accessories, on squat L day add legs, on DL L day add pulls)
>finish with core everyday, one or two sets to failure
Basically do an HLM with backoff sets instead, DUP proven better for long term gains, varying intensity > grinding 5rms everyday, backoff set for metabolic stress = more hypertrophy, add core for abs
In future cycle different lifts into the categories, e.g. swap bench out for incline for a cycle, front squat for back squat etc.
again, that doesn't yield size results without gear. I already know how to run the fraudulent program.
What's a better program that produces the same results without gear?
>source
>just trust me bro
No need to take just my word for it. Everyone else in this thread thinks you're a midwit too.
Btw are you vaxxed? You sound like you are.
gay 😀
jokes on you I haven't taken one single jab.
only reason why you are obligated to provide source is because you not willing to explain the reasoning behind your statement and are differing to yourself as some sort of final authority that goes without saying.
either explain yourself or provide source or get called a liar
My program that I wont share
gay
even more gay
>what's a training program that isn't shit that actually yields aesthetic results in a short amount of time?
3x10 bro split with a low fat high carb diet.
You know, like everyone aesthetic has trained from the 60s to today.
>what's a training program that isn't shit
Literally SBD with various isolation movements thrown in and cardio. But I bet you eat like shit and don’t have your sleep schedule set and are wondering why you are not making le gainzz
Also if you want a torso heavy new school look do mostly compounds, if you want a limb heavy old school look do mostly isolations.
The rest is experimenting which exercises work best for you. If you get better biceps from preacher curls than from standard curls, by all means do just preacher curls.
Just do full body with priority on compounds, followed by arm/leg/abs isolations.
Something like:
OHP
Squat
Rows
Deadlift
Bench press
Pullups
Situps
Leg curls
Cable curls/extensions supersets
In 3 sets each, every other day; until you become familiar with the movements. Then you *probably* will have enough knowledge to make your own program.
> 11 inch standing vertical jump
Is this a new meme?
OP, post body. Everyone here responding needs to see the caliber of the people they interact with
>the “Science-Based Lifting” body
I have literally never learned anything about lifting outside of starting strength's curriculum. I don't believe in science
yeah your standing vertical jump is higher than 11 I know
The state of your body reflects that
then wat do in explicit detail?
it's very rare for a male to have an 11 inch SVJ, it's slightly less than the average female's
Go to the gym 4-5 days a week and do a 5x5 routine on one of the big compound lifts each day, followed by appropriate accessory exercises of the same or antagonist muscle groups. Each set of the 5x5 should be of maximal intensity so you couldn’t do a 6th rep, rest 3-5 min in between sets. The accessory work should be 5-10 additional sets of moderate intensity dumbbell or isolation work per muscle group in the 8-12 rep range with 60-90 seconds rest between sets. Try to add 5-10 pounds to the 5x5 exercise each week. Eat enough protein, calories, and sleep 8 hours a night. Do this for several months
aight
may I know why is 5x5 better than 3x5?
Yea it’s harder so it breaks down the muscle more which is a key component to making gains
It actually isn't, both have their place.
You could grow as far as 3x5 takes you, then go 4x5, and then 5x5.
6x5 is theoretical only
I don't know my standing vertical but I'd be surprised if it's less than yours
This is not a flex. Your numbers are really low, even for a first timer. I was 70kg, probably 25% bf when I walked into the gym.
I know, it's not a flex, it's an excuse/justification
>this entire thread
I've just been doing stronglifts...
Is the sticky actually wrong!? I started two weeks ago. I only care about aesthetics, and nothing else btw.
No, OP is moronic. Stronglifts is even better for noobs than SS because it literally lays everything out for you from form to the program.
Okay. I'll be adding bicep curls to picrel (what I do) though. Also I've been told to actually bench 3 times a week, not just two. I've had to start with an empty bar. How are you supposed to deadlift with an empty bar, exactly?
When it says 1×5, that means 5 sets of 1 rep, right?
>1×5
1 set of 5.
If you're so weak you gotta deadlift the bar, try to ape the movement pattern, most people can throw at least 15s on the bar, if not straight up 20s, when they begin.
Okay. I'll try to add weight too, like it says, although I can't actually do the full 5×5 overhead press yet, so I think I'll only add weight to that one once I can do the full thing.
so does SS
SS is a great program, but I would tell a novice to do one round of Body for Life first.
You are just a weakling who refuses to squat and deadlift.
Enjoy your 2pl8 max!
These plebs never even read the book. They claim they did SS but never even can explain the program.
The program is used to build a base level of strength, from there you move on to more advanced programming if you want to move your numbers up. Read the fricking book