Pro athletes live longer than the general population despite being far more likely to roid a few cycles.
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Steroids do not cause long term health consequences
Pro athletes live longer than the general population despite being far more likely to roid a few cycles.
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>inb4 that's cause the general population is unhealthy
Well that just means that steroids avoidance is very low priority after eating a good diet, exercising, and doing cardio.
If steroids were over the counter then more people would exercise for easy gains. It is demoralizing to see slow gains in an estrogen pumping testosterone lowering environment. The commoner will simply give up because he cannot see gains. Steroids fixes this problem.
Inb4. Steroids cause hair loss.
Look at Arnold. Openly on steroids and never went bald.
you do realize he had numerous hair transplants and experimental treatments in order to fix his hairline, correct? the chances of being in your 70s with a decent hair count despite roiding in your early and mid life is 6 gorillion to 1
I roid but have no delusions that this shit isnt bad for you long term.
I just tapped out 8 weeks into a 12 week tren cycle. That shit is literally poison but holy shit the gains were unreal at just 300mg.
Anyhoo like anything else do it smart and moderation and its probably not too bad long term. If I die at 75 instead of 85 because of some tren then oh well
You get what you pay for. You're probably taking harsher cycles than the average MLB slugger then.
The MLB slugger isnt trying to become a huge freak tho. He just needs to hit a little harder and run a little faster.
Different cycles for different goals.
That was my first and maybe last tren ride tho.
I might try something like 100mg just to see what happens.
Yeah, they are fake natty goals for me though.
>tren
do you really need such a harsh compound
The old school cycles mainly consisted of dbol, primo, and winstrol and they lived to 70
>because they would never lie about taking moronic amounts of shit
If you think arnold got that big on 20mg dbol and some primo you're a fool
Dbol is not weak at all. Never heared about trenbolone untill half a year ago, but it doesn't seem like the substance is on another level.
>100mg just to see what happens
If you're talking about 100mg of just test, that could potentially just put your total testosterone levels below average, depending on how you respond to it of course.
strong reading comprehension
>cycles
isn't that shit completely outdated putting your body through stress of ups and downs just to lose half of what you gain anyway?
From what I've been seeing it's either natty or cruise for life
You don't necessarily lose half of what you gain. It might appear so because you're not bloated/pumped up anymore and go through a temporary test deficit.
>cruise for life
Do you mean TRT?
Maybe I'm mistaken, but don't ALL compounds facilitate some amount of liver toxicity?
If that's the case, I doubt it would be safe long term.
>Maybe I'm mistaken, but don't ALL compounds facilitate some amount of liver toxicity?
>If that's the case, I doubt it would be safe long term.
The more concerning issue is that pretty much all surpluses of androgens cause increased cardiovascular issues. You want your test levels to be within natural range, lower or higher both puts stress on your organs.
you're fixating on the word cycle and for some reason you are making up scenarios in your head so you can lecture on my perceived mistakes.
Going back and forth from blast to cruise is in fact "cycling".
You're natty anyway so stfu
did I say blast and cruise you c**t? the majority of normie "roiders" are just putting their test a little above the upper limit with TRT aka a cruise.
you dont know what you're talking about and just spouting gibberish at this point.
You assumed I wasnt BNCing because I used the word cycle.
And I dont know what "normie" roiders are doing because I am an Abby Normal roider and care not about normies, dyels, or nattys
you got blown the frick out natty homosexual go make a cope thread about trannies or something kek
Yes it's outdated. If natty is something like 100-200mg test per week and cycling is 500mg+ per week then a smarter approach would be
>300mg testosterone per week
>100-200mg something like primo
>max out the other less harmful anabolic pathways
I am just perma cruising on 250 test and 250iu eod of hcg. Low dose is very mild on health
What age are you and are you even a pro athlete? Lmao thats pathetic if you arent youre in the same cat as a junkie , mentally youre worse than them, as you need to inject male hormones just to feel like a man lmao
>that’s pathetic
>said another man trying to dictate another man’s life
sad!
>perma crusing on 250mg of shitty bathtub test
>not pathetic
Lmao kys homosexual I bet you look like dogshit like most roiders lmao
seethe crabs. telling another man what to make of his life that isn’t your son makes you a woman.
You will never be a man trannie injecting your roids lmao muh 250mg lmao youre a b***h for doing such a babby dose
seethe
I hope you inject tainted dirty gear and lose a limb homosexual lmao kys
seethe
You have to inject male hormones to feel like and function like a man lmao ahahahaha youre a trannie
Men dont perma cruise on 250mg of test, ftm trannies or mentally ill weak cucks do that.
>black-or-white thinking
>jealous
>beta
Pick all.
pro athletes who roid who roid are for more likely to die earlier than casual athletes who do not
the fact that you would make this comparison shows you are either disingenuous or legitimately moronic
Only matters if you're obsessively trying to health max. And I won't take any such person seriously unless they also avoid smoking/drinking, eat fish often, do cardio, and maintain a healthy sleep schedule. The point being that steroids cause a very marginal risk to long term health, if they cause any risk at all.
pro and retired athletes also party with prostitutes all the time and blast cocaine, weed and booze
Like with any poison, the effect depends on the dose. It's a medication. You can take a shit ton and frick your CV system while wrecking your liver with orals. Or you can bkast and cruise with low doses and occasional hcg and be fine. If you cruise at high-normal test levels and blast at like 300mg you'll be completely fine. The dame goes for orals. Dbol was originally designed and prescribed in 5-10mg per day doses, both for people with "muscle wasting" and for the original intent by the Swiss pharmaceutical company which was for athletes. In any case the 5-10mg dose was consistently shown to be dafe. Yet it has a reputation for being harsh on your liver. Why? Because shitheads take it at 20-40mg/day.
All steroids are taken at way higher than the clinical dose, moron.
5-10mg dbol does frick all. 30mg is a good starting dose.
50mg is where its at. yolo if you take more.
If you take care of your liver your numbers will recover in a month or two.
Getting drunk in college every weekend is way more harmful than 8 weeks of dbol
>5-10mg dbol does frick all.
If it did frick all, it wouldn't be the clinical dose. It's just that roiders are impatient and can't settle for "just" 50% faster gains.
what does the dose for a dying AIDS Black person with muscle wasting have to do with the dose for enhanced bodybuilding?
Lmao he thinks theres a clinical buildyboding dose lmao
It is effective for building muscle beyond natty gains at that dosage
What killed Zyzz brah?
You mirin
Sharky and Chestbrah were in cahoots!
It depends on the sport. I've met pro athletes who didn't make it to 30.
I meant to say died in their 30s didn't make it to 40 sorry
On average, for all sports, all cause mortality is lower than the general population. For sports that involve endurance, cardiovascular mortality is also lower.
>he met their ghosts
>Pro athletes live longer than the general population
They do not actually
The live shorter on average even those who don't roid
moron
Where is the data and info on this?
Look it up, I'm not your contract researcher.
just stop posting you fricking moron.
>Pro athletes live longer than the general population despite being far more likely to roid a few cycles.
well when you have the money for heart surgery and even potentially heart transplants that tends to help
you forgot to mention:
>organ transplants
>blood transplants
>adrenochrome
>special oils and creams for your skin
>far better food and drinks
etc etc. if i had that shit available i would also live to be 110 years old. nothing special about them. they just have one of the highest standards of living
Look heres the hard truth in fact form. Steroids arent healthy at any dose. You way the pros with the cons, trt makes you feel better but shortens your life. Those people make that choice because they want to feel better even at the cost of longevity. Buildyboding does arent good at all. There have been some many buildyboders that come and go either give up from nearly dying or just die its actually funny anyone even argues its healthy.
>Steroids arent healthy at any dose. You way the pros with the cons, trt makes you feel better but shortens your life
Horseshit. There is zero evidence to support what you're saying. The higher the dose, the higher the likelihood of negative side-effects. But someone going from low test at 300ng/dl to normal test at 600ng/dl does not die any sooner and rarely develops any negative side-effects because at 600ng/dl they are NORMAL.
But when you get into supranatural levels of testosterone at +1200ng/dl, what you're saying is often but now always true
Actually theres no data to support what you say but so far data is supporting what I said. It shortens your life. Theres a reason things get lower as you age lmao but Hurrrr frick biology dude gotta pin 2 win brah
>
“We now have several decades of high-quality research showing remarkable longevity and health benefits in men with normal testosterone levels compared with men with low levels,” says Abraham Morgentaler, M.D., at Harvard Medical School
Fricking idiot
Lmao 70 years of trt research? Ahahahaha
You are probably the dumbest person on IST. Congrats
Then you are a downie with aids you dumb homosexual.
Ive done nearly every steroid yet im not moronic enough to claim they are in any way healthy. Even at low doses unless you have an illness where youre wasting away or cancer aids etc thats the only situation it makes sense, but for MUH feeling good etc lmao frick off you pleb.
This is a good point.
But if an average (looking at studies involving genetic outliers like Olympic and national team athletes is almost completely irrelevant) , reasonable and otherwise healthy man uses higher than TRT doses of test (lets say 200-300mg/week) to maintain above average strength, muscle mass, vigor, sex life, insulin sensitivity, cardiac health through various forms of exercise, mental health, is he not going to be healthier than the average dude who after age 4 quickly degrades?
Specifcally, what health problems does "sports" TRT dosages of TRT cause? And if it causes any, are they not offset by the aforementioned health benefits I mentioned?
Most sides on low to mid doses arent noticable though. You can have bloodpressure kidney liver problems and not even know until its too late. A healthy average male doesnt need hrt anon. They dont need enhanced recovery at the cost of burning out your organs and frying your androgen receptors. Its why the best pros lower or come off the roids for periods as even when you do that as you age you dont respond to the drugs aswell as when you have young fresh receptors even at the same dose youd need more and more. Kevin levrone is prime example hed grow into shows ie blast gear just for the show then come off and when he tried doing his comeback at 40s or whatever age he was lmao his body didnt respond at all to the drugs and he was easily one of the most hyper responders to anbolic androgenic drugs there ever was.
Right. But if you monitor your blood presure, stay lean and do cardio, your BP should be fine. Injectables like test dont cause HBP on their own. What does cause HBP is obesity and certain drugs. Avoid those drugs, avoid obesity, do your cardio and monitor your BP.
Most injectables - certainly test - , unlike orals, don't cause liver and kidney damage. HBP and kidney damage is no joke, but injectables alone do not cause HBP and kidney problems.
>Specifcally, what health problems does "sports" TRT dosages of TRT cause? And if it causes any, are they not offset by the aforementioned health benefits I mentioned?
I'd be more uncomfortable with extended AI use than the actual testosterone. If they're suppressing estrogen that will certainly cause a host of issues after enough time, with breasts (with extreme neglect), prostate issues, or chronic fatigue being a few examples.
I mean if they're not suppressing estrogen
ehh depends on your body, I get barely any E spikes on 600mg of test, my natural E was around 32pg, on 600mg test it's only up to around 50pg and I get 0 high E sides so I don't even need AI
damn, dude. You're lucky. My TRT is 150mg and I was thinking about lowering it.
>normal test levels.
>its normal for them to decline with age
>says im the idiot
Kys you roidtrannie
>Abraham Morgentaler
yessss shill for pharma goyyy
for frrrreeeee
Pro-tip: When you ae young, blast injectables AAS (i.e. steroid hormones such as test, primobolan, masteron, nandrolone - maybe avoid tren and EQ) and build as much strength and muscle as you can. Avoid orals, although a little winstrol, d-bol and anavar in short 8 week bursts isn't the end of the world. Create lots and lots of muscle cell nuclei.
Avoid other drugs associated with competitive bodybuilding, such as clen, aromatase inhibitors, thyroid drugs, and especially diuretic drugs.
Learn how to train and eat well to support growth and health.
Enjoy being fricking yoked in your twenties.
By the time your thirties come around, stop trying to be huge. If you did Part A correctly, you can keep a lot of a decade's worth of size and muscular shape with "sports" TRT (i.e. weekly test at 200 -300 mgs per week) , good training, excellent nutrition and common sense.
Occasional "blasts" of 8-12 weeks with modest doses of primo or nandrolone (lets say 300mgs per week) can help you harden up if you want to diet down for a vacation or event, but then come off and go back to TRT.
Im pretty sure this is what The Rock does, and possible even O'Tren - great genetics, heavy use as a young man, and now all they need is modestly higer than average TRT with reasonable, low dose blasts. All while living a fricking lifestyle devoted to training, sleeping and eating well.
the bodybuilder lifestyle is shit. But builidng and keeping muscle should be healthy and reasonable, even if it requires modest use of injectables to do so. If you dig deeper, you will see that the so-called negative health consequences of low to modest does of inejctables, esp Test and nandrolone, just aren't there.
This is what I'm probably going to do at 25yo tbh. 1 year natty lifting into 500mg test.
Build some muscle, get a good body, then when I hit 30 I'll just go back to TRT levels.
Living at 500ng/dl is hell, bros. I don't have enough time to lift natty, by the time I get a "respectable" body I'll be a decrepit 30 year old frick.
>When you are young permanently frick up your natural hormone production
You'll be wearing panties by 30.
>Pro athletes live longer than the general population despite being far more likely to roid a few cycles.
Not quite true. Starting in 1995, the death rate of pro athletes at the highest levels exceeded the average popualtion (Which is pretty sad if you look at the average guy nowadays).
You know what, have a link.
https://www.spiegel.de/sport/olympia/olympia-sieger-sterben-frueher-brisante-fragen-zu-folgen-des-leistungssports-a-06b9026b-798f-4277-b2a7-7a748d23517c
tl;dr:
>if you set the "doping starting point" at around 1968, this fits like a glove:
>athletes die before non-athletes
>dopers die earlier than non-dopers
>winners die before losers
That article says only the strength-only sports like weightlifting experience higher mortality. The endurance, speed, agility, and mixed (soccer/rugby) athletes experience normal or above average life expectancy.
I definitely know a person who knows a runner who acked with 30, myocardial infarction.
https://tidsskriftet-no.translate.goog/2004/11/leder/er-toppidrett-sunt?_x_tr_sl=en&_x_tr_tl=no&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
They studied a cohort of Finnish national team athletes who had participated in Olympic Games, World Championships, European Championships or national matches in the period 1920 – 65. The original cohort consisted of more than 2,400 male athletes from three categories of sports, namely endurance sports such as cross-country skiing and running, team sports , such as football and ice hockey, and power sports, such as weightlifting, wrestling and throwing. More than 1,700 men who, at the session in their 20s, were classified as healthy and fully capable of fighting, but who did not do top sport, were used as a control group. Using links to cause of death registers, cancer registers, hospital registers and social security registers,
The main conclusion was that former national team athletes live longer and have less need for health services later in life than the control group, but that they have more musculoskeletal problems (1) . Life expectancy was significantly higher in the group of athletes – 75.6 years (95% CI 73.6 – 77.5 years) for endurance athletes, 73.9 years (72.7 – 75.1 years) for team athletes, 71.5 years (70.4 – 72.2 years) for strength athletes and 69.9 years (69.0 – 70.9 years) in the control group. The increased life expectancy is mainly due to a reduced incidence of cardiovascular diseases (2) .
The results are supported by a later study where the groups were compared with regard to hospital admissions in different diagnostic groups (3) . Compared to the control group, the total risk of hospitalization was significantly lower for all athlete groups. This was most pronounced for endurance athletes and was particularly due to fewer admissions for cardiovascular disease, lung disease and cancer. However, there were – not unexpectedly – more admissions in the athlete group due to musculoskeletal disease, despite the fact that a follow-up study showed a lower risk of hip and knee osteoarthritis in the same athlete groups, with the exception of the team athletes, who had a higher risk of gonarthrosis ( 4). Studies from Sweden also show that the risk of osteoarthritis is higher in former footballers, even in athletes without recognized acute joint injuries during their careers (5) .
These studies do not prove that doing top sports today is healthy. Firstly, the athletes in the Finnish and Swedish studies are selected groups, which genetically and biologically cannot in any way be said to be representative of the general population. Maybe health genes are linked to performance genes? Furthermore, we do not know whether the positive results are due to former athletes also living healthier later in life: Fewer of them smoke, and they drink less, exercise more and eat healthier than the control group (6 ) . But if a healthier lifestyle after the sports career were to be the main explanation, it can also be seen as a positive consequence of the sports career.
But there are big differences between top sport 35 years ago and top sport today. Today, the top athletes are professionals, the training doses are many times higher and the pace is far greater, and thus also the forces on muscles and joints when injuries occur. This means that acute injuries and musculoskeletal problems after the end of a career can be expected to become both more common and more serious in the future. The pressure of expectations and the financial and commercial interests in top sport are also far greater today than a few decades ago. The use of illegal performance-enhancing preparations among top athletes has been documented in several countries, e.g. from the former GDR. The long-term consequences of today's top sporting activities cannot be known until 20 - 40 years from now, but much can indicate that the development is moving in the direction of a higher risk of injuries and health problems.
It is worth noting that the contrast between the top athletes and an increasingly sedentary population increases both in terms of activity level and physical fitness. One can therefore expect a relatively greater positive effect on life expectancy and risk for, among other things, cardiovascular disease, diabetes and cancer among top athletes (7) . In any case, we can hope that the Olympic Games in Athens in August have helped to inspire more children, young people and adults to take up regular physical activity. In that case, it will undoubtedly provide great health benefits.
35 years ago pharma grade steroids were legal nearly everywhere lmao now you have to pretend to have issues to get amounts through doctors or controlled clinics.
The point is not that roids are healthy. The point is that athletic dosages have such small health consequences that they are absolutely dwarfed by things like cardio exercise habits, overall body size, diet, and sleep habits.
>rich person lives longer than the general population
WOW
Honestly op, you are stupid.
Tour de france cyclist #46 is not rich.
>professional biking as a hobby
>not above average in wealth
Uh huh
Most white and asian people are above average in wealth. It's not hard. Just being a stemgay white collared worker will give you enough to afford regular doctor's visits and health insurance that covers surgery and chemo.
I do cycles of 500mg test with a little Anavar and I think that's the way to go. When I'm off cycle it's just normal TRT and 2IU's of HGH. I work my ass off in construction and still make it to the gym every day.
The general population is obese
In non-obese countries like France as well.
Best first cycle?
>t. 28 alcoholic infantry vet
500mg test