The truth on volume for hypertrophy

You need 9-12 hard sets per body part per week. Rep range 5-30 reps taken to within 1-3 reps of failure. Aim for 10 sets per week and
If you feel like doing one or two more sets go for it, if you feel like doing a few less that's fine too.

That's it. That's all you need.

The more volume and sets you add the more likely it is that you are not working out hard and those extra sets are garbage sets.

You dont need 8 different variations of exercises either.. incline, decline, flat, dumbell, barbell, just pick one or two different exercises.

You're overcomplicating something that is pretty straightforward.

give me 2 guys, all else being equal, one guys does 5 hard sets of flat bench twice a week and the other guy does 30 sets a week consisting of some complicated split of decline, incline, flyes, crossovers, dumbells, barbells, etc and after any given period of time you would see absolutely no difference between the two.

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  1. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'm going to give you a bump for an week fitness related thread for once here. Where's the source for ten sets being the long of diminishing returns though? I thought it was 20 sets per week per muscle group.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      There unfortunately isn't a hard answer on what's optimal. Beyond 20-24 spmg/week is just where they've established the benefit of additional volume flatlines in natties. When I read some of literature it said even spmg/session essentially flatlined absolutely at 10. They were also testing purely for increases in muscle mass not strength. All volume is not equal though and returns on the same volume can vary greatly so unless you're a walking average I wouldn't put much stock volume recommendations unless what you're currently doing is not working. There's not a whole lot you can really take away from this except hormones>diet=rest>routine(if it's not horrible and not challenging)

  2. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    shut the frick up moron

  3. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Alright so someone give me the ideal routine using this information

  4. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Rep range 5-30 reps taken to within 1-3 reps of failure
    what does this even mean? im ESL and have brain damage

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      dude read again, but slowly.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      You should perform between 5 and 30 reps, and make sure you get within at least 3 reps of muscular failure.

  5. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    A thread about training volume gets 5 replies in 5 hours while nofap and shit bait threads get 50-100 replies

    hmmm

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      I am too stupid to understand. What rep range should I do if I just want to look big?

      Also, use a lust provoking image next time you will get more attention

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Most people on here don't actually lift. Or at least they don't lift frequently. The one that do already know this and have built their programs around it.

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The one that do already know this and have built their programs around it.
        Then they should post about about it here. Tell us how many sets they need, how they figured out, what they did wrong and how they use those sets and so on. I think a lot of people got fricked by the overhyped volume requirements and ended up doing 15-20 sets per week and overtraining injuring them self.

        You forgot stupid hairline stuff

        That goes under "stupid bait shit"

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I think a lot of people got fricked by the overhyped volume requirements and ended up doing 15-20 sets per week and overtraining injuring them self.
          If a natural lifters is "overtraining and injuring" themself, they're malnourished or have a hormonal issue. Should be looking at diet and rest in that case. A natural lifter simply won't be able to produce enough energy in a given week to damage the muscle this much unless you fill your routine with a bunch of low impact cardio then try to lift, or they're abusing stimulants and frying their adrenals.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Let me be clear by the way, a bunch of cardio I'm talking about hours upon hours daily combined with daily lifting of an hour+. Like what killed Scott Murray, he was doing HIIT cardio too and abusing stimulants. Not talking about doing a daily 30 minute walk or something.

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            Let me be clear by the way, a bunch of cardio I'm talking about hours upon hours daily combined with daily lifting of an hour+. Like what killed Scott Murray, he was doing HIIT cardio too and abusing stimulants. Not talking about doing a daily 30 minute walk or something.

            you are a stupid shit and it would have been better if you simply not posted this.

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              You don't lift

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              You sound malnourished. I would recommend eating more eggs. There is no way to "overtrain" as a natural if you're lifting as hard as you should be you'll simply get tired long before then.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >overtraining isn't real because... I LE SAID SO

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Overtraining isn't real because I train daily and go all out for 90 minutes. Meanwhile you're skinny/fat. I bet you think Eric Bugenhagen wasn't natural 5 years ago and that tells me all I need to know about your muscular development and experience in the gym https://youtu.be/4IzAxxFrQH0?t=133

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Overtraining isn't real because I train daily and go all out for 90 minutes

                lmao, unironically please film your entire workout and post it, I want to see this all out for 90 minutes

                >I bet you think Eric Bugenhagen wasn't natural 5 years ago
                :/ lmao

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >:/ lmao
                You just admitted you think 6'1" ~230lbs holding tons of water and 15% bodyfat isn't attainable naturally. So it appears I was correct in my assumption. You're DYEL and I'm giving you the secrets to success which is train daily, train hard, eat nutritious food, but you're still accusing people of steroids on the internet. Lol.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Thinks overtraining isn't real
                >Thinks Bugenhagen was natty
                Certified moron

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                Bugenhagen was natty. He gained like 20 lbs of muscle in the past 2 years.

              • 11 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're acting as though the second statement is somehow evidence of the first, but it isn't.

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          >I think a lot of people got fricked by the overhyped volume requirements and ended up doing 15-20 sets per week and overtraining injuring them self.
          Most people are not training anywhere near their actual limit (or even 1-2 to failure). They're getting injured because they're moronic and do things with poor form, not "overtraining"

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      You forgot stupid hairline stuff

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        t. Baldie

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      You know, at least for me I already know this information, the OT shit is funny sometimes

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        This

        >Because flat barbell bench is a shit movement that doesn't produce a full stretch and full contraction of the entire chest

        https://www.acefitness.org/certifiednewsarticle/3003/what-are-the-top-3-most-effective-chest-exercises/

        "researchers found that out of the nine exercises tested, the pectoralis major was activated the most during the barbell bench press."

        is the reason people don't reply to threads like this. Finds one study meanwhile I've seen a demonstration on video showing seated cable flyes recruiting the most muscle while hitting every part of the pec evenly. Go ahead and keep flat benching though buddy, you'll have giant droopy looking breasts without training upper chest. A lot of pro bodybuilders don't even do flat pressing, only incline and that's for a reason. If you want the shelf you need to be incline pressing.

  6. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    When people say “sets per body part”, do mean one muscle, like biceps, triceps, etc. Or do they literally mean a body part, such as arms, legs?

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Muscle or muscles. My actual pecs get barely any stimulus from bench press, but I always start a push workout with a heavy bench anyway and finish the pump/stimulus of the pecs with flys/wide grip bench/deficit pushups or whatever I feel like that day.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Muscle, I believe the volume data was from quad extensions

  7. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    homie just move heavy weights lmao

  8. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Yeah that's basically a shitload of volume and most gymgoers are not doing that much anyway. I bet I barely do that much and I go and lift for 60-90mins a day because I love it.
    >give me 2 guys, all else being equal, one guys does 5 hard sets of flat bench twice a week and the other guy does 30 sets a week consisting of some complicated split of decline, incline, flyes, crossovers, dumbells, barbells, etc and after any given period of time you would see absolutely no difference between the two.
    No... Because flat barbell bench is a shit movement that doesn't produce a full stretch and full contraction of the entire chest. Depending on your leverages it can be decent, but cables are the only thing that will hit the entire chest. One would be better off substituting all that bench for upper chest cable movement and dips.

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Because flat barbell bench is a shit movement that doesn't produce a full stretch and full contraction of the entire chest

      https://www.acefitness.org/certifiednewsarticle/3003/what-are-the-top-3-most-effective-chest-exercises/

      "researchers found that out of the nine exercises tested, the pectoralis major was activated the most during the barbell bench press."

  9. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    R8 program

    >push
    Bench
    Ohp
    Cable flies
    Lateral raises
    Pushdowns

    >pull
    Weighted pullups
    Seated wide rows
    Cable pullovers
    Reverse flies / shrugs (alternate)
    Cable curls

    >legs
    Deadlift
    Squat
    Leg extensions
    Leg curls
    Calve raises
    Weighted crunches

    I do everything for 4 sets of 10. Sometimes with compounds i settle for 8-10.

    Rest as much as i need between sets because it doesn’t matter, isolations usually 1-2 mins, compounds usually 3-4 mins.

    I lift 6 days a week. PPLPPLR

    • 11 months ago
      Anonymous

      Please respond

      • 11 months ago
        Anonymous

        count how many sets you are doing per bodypart

        • 11 months ago
          Anonymous

          8-16

          • 11 months ago
            Anonymous

            and how many years you lifted?

            • 11 months ago
              Anonymous

              It's complicated, I used to lift for about 3 years and was pretty swole, but I took a break of about 2-3 years and became a fatass.
              I've been back to the gym for the last 2-3 months and been making very fast gains, almost back to where I was in terms of muscle mass and strength (still fat tho)

  10. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    I do variations because doing the same thing over and over is really boring.

  11. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    The chart isn't accurate and clearly made by a guy who doesn't know about lifting. It should start at near "maximum yield" with one set, though "a set" is not a scientific term. Is that a set of leg extensions or 400lb squats, it doesn't say. Was that set taken to failure or was it 30 reps from failure like I see everyone in the gym doing? There is NO RESEARCH AT ALL that shows more sets having an exponential growth. Even that shoenfield meta-analysis (meta-analysis can be "cooked" by the way) shows 1-3 sets as optimal, with more sets supposedly giving less than 6% "better gains" which is in the ballpark of genetic differences.

    These arbitrary numbers are just the antithesis of physiology. It's just a nice "clean" number to give morons to argue about. Even the idea of a "set per bodypart" is stupid because your body doesn't work in a vaccuum. Are you counting those dips as front delt lift? If you are critically minded at all you'd realize these volume targets are stupid but most lifters are fricking morons. Any idiot can get a $10 a month gym membership and any idiot with money can go to a men's clinic and get the roids he wants to pretend to be an expert.

  12. 11 months ago
    Anonymous

    Bump. This anon is absolutely right. There is no way around it. I did the math myself and found the sets per week formula. I leave it here:
    Sets per muscle per week = SPMW
    (5*sqrt(2)*sqrt(-50*SPMW^2+1440*SPMW+1373)-262)/50
    This formula gives you the percent of potential muscle you will gain given any number of sets per muscle per week.
    In short:
    1 set per muscle per week = 23% potential muscle gain
    3 set per muscle per week = 50% potential muscle gain
    6 set per muscle per week = 75% potential muscle gain
    9 set per muscle per week = 90% potential muscle gained
    11 set per muscle per week = 95% potential muscle gained
    14 set per muscle per week = 100% potential muscle gained
    Remember those set are hard sets (at least close to volitional failure) and recovery (nutrition and rest) are critical to success.

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