This is what 4 years of natural, intermediate level bodybuilding in a bulked state (88kg) with no pump, no filters, and no down lighting looks like
Max bench: 105kg
Max OHP: 70kg
Max squat: 140kg
Max deadlift: 180kg
Is bodybuilding without gear even worth it?
try doing cardio bro. It helps a frickton gets your blood pumping to help aid your muscles.
I do plenty of cardio, but definitely more during non-bulk periods. I live in a city so I walk an average of 5-7 miles per day, I don't drive. Occasionally I do high intensity cardio such as sprinting but it reaults in more fatigue and worse workout performance. Occasionally I also do long distance stuff, and that just eats straight through muscle mass.
you shouldnt really lose muscle unless you simply dont get enough protein no matter how long you walk. also you dont even look particularly bad your body fat could be lower and your numbers could be higher sure buts its tough to know your genetic potential just keep it up man.
Not walking - low intensity cardio won't cause muscle loss.
However I had phases of long distance running (10km+) and that will absolutely cause muscle loss, especially in the upper body, no matter your protein intake. The body will literally eat up muscle, not fat, during the runs.
Of course if you train hard you can still keep plenty of muscle, but as a runner the best physique you can hope for is David Goggins
>I do plenty of cardio
>I walk
lmao
Walking up to 7 miles a day is cardio. It's low intensity, sure, but still less sedentary than 99% of the US for example, including people who go to the gym
It's like saying rucking or marching isn't cardio if you aren't running the whole time.
Running, any form of long but high intensity cardio, leads to muscle loss and is the opppsite of what a bodybuiler should be doing. Sprints or HIIT is fine, but it is intense to the point that it'll damage other muscle building workouts, for example you can't do 1x10 100m sprints at 100% intensity and then expect to workout normally for the rest of the day.
Unless of course you aren't natty, and I think at this point it's fair to say less people are lifetime natties than non-nattoes in the gym/bodybuilding sphere
In fact - merely dating steroids WITHOUT working out will cause more muscle growth than working out with a high baseline test, perfect nutrition, hydratoon, and sleep but natty
Also - the mechanisms at which this works are not completely understood yet.
But essentially, your body will choose to burn muscle over fat in certain situations (such as a marathon run) - this is because muscle is not necessary for running, it's heavy, and gives a frickton of energy when burned by the body (see: marathon runner phyisque, world record holders).
Meanwhile, fat is good for insulation so it's more helpful to have on your body than muscle is when it comes to running. It's why most people who don't do any muscle training, but run often, are skinnyfat
>less sedentary than 99% of the US for example
The nation is so sedentary and gets so little exercise that this statement is fairly meaningless. Stop comparing yourself to lifeless blobs.
Moron
>4 years for those stats
Crearly you're not lifting hard enough those are numbers you should hit in 6 months
Its impressive if hes 5 4
No that’s the other way around, a taller dude has longer levers, meaning they need to create more Newtons (actual force) to lift the same weight than a short dude with shorter levers.
Manlet strength is a real thing
Idk. You think a manlet can achieve strongmen numbers? Press x to doubt
That’s because the manlet room for growth will be limited at some point, a short body can’t put on as much muscle as a tall body, that’s pure logic.
But for the numbers OP is referring (not extraordinary numbers btw) a manlet will reach them before a lanklet because of what i explained
It really depends on the lift and movement and other factors.
Technically when you squat, your own bodyweight is a part of the movement on top of whatever is on the barbell. Yet bigger people can just move more weight.
Benchpress seems to favor manlets the most, but again, I would assume a 6'9" 300lb person to be able to move 2 plates without even having trained because they themselves have so much mass.
You’re both wrong. It depends on proportions. A taller guy with the same proportions as a Greg Ducette will lift much more than Greg
Ambiguous use of the term "proportions" won’t make you right.
Are you talking about levers ratio only ? Or are you equating for muscle mass ?
Because if you add a foot to greg’s height but still keeping his ‘proportional size’ that means you maybe add 20 to 30 kgs more of lean muscle mass. So of course the bigger dude will be stronger.
But controlling for the same lean muscle mass, the taller dude will be "weaker" than the shorter one.
I have never witnessed someone with 6 months of lifting experience hitting 2 plate bench press unless they weren't natural or were already large or fat. In my experience most people get it around the 2-3 year mark (which is where I got it, and maintained it throughout a bulk-cut cycle the past year, + a few extra kg)
my 1rm is 95kg after about a month of lifting. i look pretty much like the guy in the OP pic with a slightly smaller chest.
this is a demoralisation thread. kys
Love this meme
>bro I was DLing 4pl8s in my first 3 weeks, never lifted a weight before
Took me 9 months for a triple, skill issue
4 months, single.
You can add 4-5 months to all of that if you include going to a calisthenics park and doing pull-ups, dips and hanging leg raises only as lifting. Time above is from joining a gym and doing barbell lifts for the first time.
88 kg at what height? People brag about being 200 lbs here but then they mention theyre 6 5 or something so not really impressive
183cm (6'0") 88kg (194lbs)
Obviously, I look much better when I cut to 170~175. My point is, in natural bodybuilding, progress is insanely slow even under perfect conditions. Anyone can mog all my years of experience and progress with no experience and one half cycle of a random SARM
Are your numbers for reps or one rep maxes? Asking because my numbers are under yours but I look good. I always think it's incredbile how anons come in with big numbers and complain about not looking good. 185cm 80kg btw.
Those are maxes, I train at 60-80% of those
I'm not saying I look bad - I'm bigger/stronger than 90%+ of people around me or IRL. I'm saying, I look like nothing like a fitness influencer or how someone may expect someone who bodybuilds for that long would look like.
Of course I can make it look better when I cut, get a pump, get a better camera, get better lighting, take it in a perfect angle, and apply some filters.
But that's the whole point. Reality vs. Internet shit. Natty vs not natty.
Well yeah bro, it's not like it's a secret those fitness shitfluencers have roids coming out of their asses. If there's anyone that actually believes guys that have popping delts and abs with insane vascularity and can maintain 10% bf and infinitum are natty, I'd highly doubt that person's cognitive ability lmao
People still mistake being able to lift heavy weights with bodybuilding
OP's training all wrong, even I look better than him and I lift like a lazy bum, drink a shitton of alcohol every day, smoke a pack a day and have never hit my protein macros in my life
No I'm not gonna post body that should be for people that look decent
I haven't lifted since I was 16 and I was putting up those same numbers. I'm 26 now. You must be five foot three.
Idk, people say that yet in every gym I've been in - MAYBE 1/20 of the men can bench 2 plates. If you count only the lifetime natties, it's closer to 1/30 or 1/40. And if you count out people in a bulked state, it's halved again. And that's out of gym goers.
In other words, I think only about 1/80 of men that go to the gym can bench 225+ if they are lean and lifetime natty
Some players in the frickin NFL can hardly bench 225, or barely squeeze out 5-10 reps, and those are the pinnacle of athletes
Of course the big mfers can do 30+ reps, but that's not the point. It's a hard thing to do yet the internet thinks its normal because they have only ever been exposed to non-natties.
Yup they are exposes to Non natties that are genetic elites and make fitness their job. Lots of dyel weak non natties out there
Yeah most people don't know how to train and they are just doing the same stuff without proper progression.
You ask if natural bodybuilding is even worth it as if you don't understand how important genetics are.
They really aren't. Any IFBBC (or whatever the frick it is) pros that are natty?
No? Why not if it's all genetics? Certainly someone must have the genetics to win it natty if it's mostly about genetics right?
Nobody's talking about natties in the IFBB you dingdong. I'm talking about natties who look like Alex Leonidas or Chris Jones or Geoffrey Verity Schofield. Not everybody is going to reach that level, plenty will just get to where you are & stay there.
it has nothing to do with your muscle amount, your bodyfat is too high.
I was unironically dyel until 20, trained since 16-17.
Then as soon as i turned 20 i gained some muscle. (pic rel)
>lfit heavy with meme 5RM max lifts like OHP/DL/DLs/bench that are shit for hypertrophy
>end up looking like shit
Tale as old as father time himself.
>Don't do those lifts
>Be a permanent dyel
Kek
mad cuz tru
Even if he lifted 2x of that, he'd still look bad.
But you don't even lift that and you look worse than him. So how do you know?
>sub 3 pl8 squat and sub 4 pl8 deadlift
>heavy
I can already tell (You) look like shit from this post
Post a natural who lifts 2x like that and looks bad and post a body of natural who doesnt lift 1/2/3/4 and looks jacked. I wont be waiting as I know it doesnt exist.
Go to an IPF powerlifting comp and you'll see plenty of people like that
I literally don't. Also thats what gets me about the strength vs aestethics discussion. Obviously if you JUST do the compounds, you wont look aestethic. If you literally on purpose do not train your biceps and shoulders etc. sure as frick they wont be aestethic. Also its the technique, the idea of powerlifting is to use as little energy and as little muscle as possible. The ROM of a bodybuilder doing bench press is 50cm where as the ROM powerlifter doing bench press is 5cm. If they would both do the same technique, the same rom, the same speed, the same reps and other does 60kg and the other does 180kg, the guy who can do 180kg has way bigger muscles.
If you can do incline db press with 20kg for 12 vs incline db press with 50kg for 12, the guy who can do it with heavier weight (the guy who is stronger) is going to have much bigger chest muscles. There is no way around this. Someone can "appear" stronger than they are because of optimal limb length, if you have really long arms, your deadlift is naturally "stronger" than somoeone who doesn't. But the truth is that simply because of physics you need to apply less force so you arent actually stronger its just more favorable lift for you.
>If you can do incline db press with 20kg for 12 vs incline db press with 50kg for 12, the guy who can do it with heavier weight (the guy who is stronger) is going to have much bigger chest muscles.
And how do you think you're going to get from 20kg to 50kg, exactly? Doing fahve by fahves never hitting failure? The guy with juicy pecs is able to lift 50kg because he has juicy pecs, he doesn't have juicy pecs because he can lift 50kg, that's the difference. Unless you're peaking you're neuromuscular system with strength training, you're strength is going to be directly proportional to the size of your muscle, because it is the muscle that is actually lifting the weight. All things being equal, a bigger muscle is inherently a stronger muscle. The best way to grow a muscle, therefore, is just to progressively overload as the muscle gets larger and thus needs bigger loads. You can't force progression unless you start cheating with technique and ROM and shit.
The problem with this logic is that there are people with smaller muscles that can clearly lift more than someone with large muscles for the same ROM.
It's not just about muscle size that produces power to move something. Muscle fibers can also differ heavily. CNS can vary. How well someone can recruit helper muscles can vary. Etc etc.
That's why you can have examples of 155lb guys benching 4 plates for FULL ROM. Even though in reality they look (and are) tiny, their strength level is insane. Meanwhile you can have massive bodybuilders that can hardly bench or move their own BW. They have the size - but are missing other factors
>That's why you can have examples of 155lb guys benching 4 plates for FULL ROM
4 plates is like what 400 pounds? How the frick a 155lb guy could bench that
A 162lb guy benching 400lb would be one of the best IPF powerlifters. Atwood and Perkins benched a hair under 430 as an all-time PR. Move down a weight class and the current world champ (Pana) in the 145lb class has a 380lb PR bench. So this anon is full of shit.
have a nice day
your maxes are low for 4 years. curently you are fat with like 15kg to lose. at ~75kg sub10% u mog 99.99% of popualtion
>your maxes are low for 4 years
Depends on where he started out, very stupid comment no offense.
Yeah took me 5 months to hit those numbers with test and primo. Started from cardio twink mode who has never been into the gym. 24y.o./88kg/182cm
I lifted more than you after 2 years and I've never been above 12%bf, wtf are you doing. And the 140kg, 180kg deadlift are probably bullshit because they're exactly 3 and 4 plates.
Thats exactly how much I tried. I don't like testing maxes on deads and squats
nta but if that's the cause, 3 and 4 plates are good enough for squat and deadlift. If you're into aesthetics you could put those two on maintenance and pump the volume for your upper body.
frick off moron. I achieved 1/2/3/4 in 6 months at much leaner bodyfat% weighing around 65kg. Its on you if it took you 4 years.
>the problem isn't me, the problem is natural bodybuilding
kinda pathetic tbh
i barely lift and i mog the absolute frick out of you. youre doing something seriously wrong, what are you eating?
Bulking is a stupid meme. You're just adding extra steps and looking like shit in the process.
>Bulking is a stupid meme
this. if you dont have any muscle definition you might as well not even lift
You know nothing about lifting if you think that and are still at the newbie stage.
Either that or if you've only lifted on gear
If you don't bulk you'll end up looking like
>Max bench: 105kg
I benched that much for 10reps after a year. Did you try putting effort into it?
>4 years of natural bodybuilding
>Can't even bench 105kg for 5 sets of 5
>can't even OHP 70kg for 3 sets of 5
can't even squat 140kg to 5 sets of 5
>can't even deadlift 200kg for a set of 5.
Bro these are all achievable natty within 1.5 years. Source - me. What you did was
>do machines
>feel the burn
>time under tension
>Am-am...I an intermediate now daddy?
No, you're still a novice. Now go on Starting Strength and do the Texas method proper you homosexual.
>SS
>Texas
lmao fat and gay
but of course you won't post body with timestamp
Did you try lifting during those 4 years?
Start boxing of MMA. Bodybuilding is useless. Big pecs have no real world use except looks.
Yeah, that's because you're fat as shit. Try lowering your bodyfat to at least 15%
Do you need more? You look great and strong
1.80
56kg
1 year training natural calisthenics at home.
spooky
>1.80
>56kg
sissy
That's the issue with calisthenics - you're not gaining muscle unless you introduce weight. Weighted dips, weighted pull ups, etc.
You're very lean but have a very small amount of muscle on you
Twink bod, you're so feminine I wanna rail you
you need to be 100kg minimum
You just wasted 4 years not knowing how to diat.
Have you tried cutting? And by that I mean your wrists you demoralizing homosexual
42year old 88kg 186cm
Bench 40kg once but my arms break and I can only do 3x8 with 30kg
Should I lose fat first or start gaining muscles and then drop the fat?
When I was 20 I could bench 3x10 80kg my weight was 75kg
I may be dyel but my bench, squat, and deadlift maxes are better than OP, and I even weigh 8kg less. I'm also not a demoralizing homosexual.
That body's fricking gorgeous, anything more would be excessive and my heart would explode if this person so much as said hello to me. Quit b***hing
ywnbaw thougheverbeit
I am a man and that man is gorgeous
>bodybuilding
>maxes
your issue is you're training for bodybuilding but you've conflated 1rm with bodybuilding progress. Bodybuilding progress is measured in the mirror. powerlifting progress is measured in the gym.
>4 years for a hair over 1/2/3/4
User error
yep this is why im giving up on natty lifting after only a year, i can see how much time it would take for me to have a respectable body
if i started lifting at 15 then i would probably stay natural
You look fine moron