So apparently the whole 2g/kg/day protein intake shit was a lie and protein powder is basically a scam ? This goes against everything that's every been told to me regarding fitness. Thoughts on this IST ?
Was it all a lie ?
So apparently the whole 2g/kg/day protein intake shit was a lie and protein powder is basically a scam ? This goes against everything that's every been told to me regarding fitness. Thoughts on this IST ?
Yes you absolute dingus, your body needs protein yeah but not in the excessive amounts you think. 60g per day is fine unless you're a top bodybuilder
False.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/
60g is DYEL tier, at least get it to 120g
you only need 20g above recommended dose to have enough protein if you go to the gym so 80g a day is enough
more protein = more saturated = eating less carbs/fats = leaner body
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK234922/#:~:text=Amino%20acids%20consumed%20in%20excess,converted%20to%20carbohydrate%20or%20fat
Thing is excess protein ends up becoming carbs for it can't be stored in the body. Considering this, is over stauration really beneficial ?
Post body
Carbs are far more important for non-sedentary people
not disagreeing, just saying that most people wouldn't get more benefits past 120g
I hope to this some actual discussion on this.
I think you should listen to all the experts and do exactly what they say. Because clearly less scientific approaches have never produce any results. Everyone who's bigger than you is less intelligent and roiding.
Based
Never listen to DYELs about this shit, regardless of how many degrees they have. There are plenty of jacked trainers who also have PhDs who will give you good advice
DYEL who is really going for it here, thank you. This was my first thought. Should I listen to these weak crusty homosexuals or some jacked motherfrickers? Now can you help me with the fact that my new protein powder tastes like dogshit?
>help me with the fact that my new protein powder tastes like dogshit?
Do the big guys care about the taste of their food? No. They only care about the macros and micros. Just gulp it down.
Yeah this new one’s macros are way better than the one i was using before. I figured it was gonna taste awful. Thanks bro just slugged that shit and off to the gym.
>Now can you help me with the fact that my new protein powder tastes like dogshit?
buy new protein powder that tastes good, blend the old protein with the new in the ratio of 1 in 4 parts.
t.had to dispose of a lot of ensure coz my cousin died and left it behind
sorry about your cousin anon
>There are plenty of jacked trainers who also have PhDs
literally who? apart from mike isreal
Yeah listen to some DYEL "nutrition expert" over actual bodybuilders for getting swole. Totally gonna work out.
you listen to roiders, they are not getting "swole" because of excessive protein intake
>Listen to the bodybuilders that roid, shill pills and powders and change their mind on diet and sell books on it every 25 seconds
Basically you need to distinguish the difference between absorption and metabolism.
While the body can absorb all the amino acids you take, in the end there's a limit for metabolizing them into protein building.
>didn't watch the video
I get this. What I never see explained well is what happens with the protein that is absorbed but not used for muscle protein synthesis. Does it turn into fat, how is that even possible? Burnt for energy? Ok but what if you don't need the energy. How is it stored. Does it go to other types of muscle (smooth, organs etc.)
gluconeogenesis
body turns it into carbs / sugar (energy) and replenishes glycogen in the muscles and the leftover is turned into fat.
just wanted to add that it turns it into fat in a surplus, as you can see with the kreb cycle, it also turns it into ATP, so in a caloric deficit, that energy is used up rather than turned to fat. I didn't want you to misunderstand that all carbs go to fat no matter what.
The study sounded really interesting but I don't think it had anything to do with athletes and muscle building.
This guy is a self-proclaimed eco warrior pushing veganism. And I find it hard to believe that so many professional athletes with millions of dollars on the line would get duped into thinking that they need more protein than really do. When all they care about is maximum athletic performance, and they have a huge infrastructure of professional nutritionists supporting that goal, they all consume 100+ grams of protein per day. And they almost never do it via veganism either.
>I find it hard to believe that so many professional athletes with millions of dollars on the line would get duped into thinking that they need more protein than really do.
my brother in christ, have you seen some of the shit that tom brady's trainer has him do? there's videos on youtube and its the most ineffective training that you can possibly imagine.
pretty sure joel seedman had a couple athletes as clients too.
you probably need something like 1.2g per kg protein but of course moronic bodybuilders think more is always better and turned it into 2g per kg
go to around 19:30 and it's clear he simply doesn't care about muscle building. He is bascially making shitty educated guesses because he doesn't care enough about the subject to research it.
And for health he is correct, you don't need to maximize your gains to be healthy, but if you want to do that, then don't listen to this guy who clearly doesn't give a frick about muscle.
never mind I found the actual answer
>On a more personal note Christopher Gardner has been a vegetarian for more than 25 years, or, as he prefers to describe it, a plant-based diet.
Eating less protein and eating less animal products basically go hand in hand.
based thanks for the cliffnotes so i dont have to watch this
i hate this trend
>YOU HAVE BEEN PREPARING CHICKEN WRONG FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE
>EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT PROTEIN IS WRONG
>BASIC COMPOUND LIFTS WE HAVE BEEN DOING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS CAUSE CANCER
>EVERYTHING YOU KNEW ABOUT BUTTER IS WRONG
>EVERYTHING YOU KNEW ABOUT CARBS IS WRONG
>YOU HAVE BEEN USING TOOTHBRUSHES WRONG YOUR WHOLE LIFE
Based. Read the studies yourself or ignore them and intuitionmax. Health news is worse than nothing.
3-4 grams per kg is a lot of protein. Ruhl is based but he's also on horse sized dosage of steroids.
The problem with this discussion is that there is no control. Everyone that goes to the gym eats a frickton of protein because that's what we've been told is needed by our idols who are on steroids. But they themselves don't even know. Extremely high protein is just the default because that's what everyone believes is needed and if we can afford it then why not. There is simply no control here.
The only big dude that have gone on record not caring that much about protein, that I know about, is Bugez, of course he might be lying but his philosophy is that protein intake is gonna be whatever it is gonna be and he certainly is not lacking in size or strength. Also probably on steroids now.
I've been forced to be on a low-protein diet due to fundage issues. I've found that I can build muscle just as well, but I'm more prone to injury, and can't put up the same amount of volume. A low-protein diet means building more slowly.
1.6g per kg is sufficient to build muscle effectively
1.5 g per kg lean body mass.
if you're 130 kg with 50 % body fat you boviously don't need as much protein as a 130 kg body builder with 5 % body fat.
anyone who claims 60-80g a day is enough should automatically post body
I don't eat protein at all
>So apparently the whole 2g/kg/day protein intake shit was a lie and protein powder is basically a scam
and water is wet.
everyone with 2 brain cels knows that you don't need that much protein, just do quick math and you will see, 2g/kg/day, what are you trying to do? build 50kg of muscles in a year? that is not possible, even if you are roiding
1-1.2g/kg/day is probably the most you will ever need, especially if you are not roiding
food quality is more important
50g of grass fed red meat is better than 200g of chlorine washed, vaxx maxxed, corn fed, factory farmed lean chicken breast
it's just science sweeties and no industrial waste pea protein powder is not food :^)
>it's just science
but you have nothing to backup the claim you just made though
Do you have a single peer reviewed study that proves that's the case?
protein powders are generally just instantly used, which means little goes to muscle and most gets turned into energy, you can increase MPS by being in a fasted state or by just having worked out to help prevent as much being transferred into energy, though. The slow digesting proteins are what you want, so your body has a steady trickle. There's a reason why foods like eggs and milk are gold standard foods for bodybuilders.
You don't need nearly as much protein as people that sell protein powder tell you. If you are near 100g, you are likely reaching enough protein to reap most of the benefits from it.
I've checked and without really trying, I'm at ~110g/day, and that's without a whey shaker and not eating lunch. I feel like any supplementation is a waste now.
yeah and if you do any research into this, you'll realize that the average american already consumes an abundance of protein every day. Sure you could probably get an extra half pound to pound of muscle per 8-12 months if you ate at the recommended values, but the diminishing returns and just the amount of sickness you'd have doing so likely wouldn't be worth it for your overall health and finances.
It's my understanding that this came from Arnold saying 1g of protein per pound of bodyweight, sometime back in his golden era.
But here's the deal- Arnold was a body builder on steroids.
If you're not a body builder on steroids, you don't need that much protein. You can get half that and still be eating a higher protein diet than basically 99% of men throughout history.
Dudes got ripped simply working labor jobs eating much less.
it is odd that all these bodybuilders and researchers just so happen to recommend protein values that the average person cannot hope to achieve by food alone, that they have to supplement with at least 1 protein shake a day, providing a demand for protein powder.
You basically have to eat 2 pounds of meat a day along with a balanced diet to stay healthy and meet these protein goals. If any average person does that, they'll just start getting fat if they have the appetite.
A 24 oz container of skyr is like $5 and has 72 grams of protein. Just take the dairy pill.
you must have missed the part where I alluded to consuming large amounts of protein is likely to make you sick.
a pound and a half of skyr is going to be hard to consume even over the course of a day and that's less than half the daily intake of most people here.
>If you're not a body builder on steroids, you don't need that much protein
why? where is your proof for this? I can just as easily say "you need even more than what arnold says, because he was on roids which helps him build and preserve muscle, and you're natty. so you need even more"
Eating 180 g of protein a day:
>if this is wrong, I'm good
>if this is right, I'm still getting enough protein per day and this much is ot nearly enough for any bad side effects so I'm still good
Eating below 180 g of protein a day:
>if this is wrong, I'm absolutely fricked, bye bye gains
>if this is right, I'm good
Yeah I think I'm gonna stick with eating 180 g, thanks.
>if this is wrong, I'm good
no it's not, it's stress on your kidneys
No it isn't, 180 is nowhere near strenuous for kidneys and the only studies that suggest a serious protein overdose can hurt kidneys were conducted on people who had kidney disease to begin with. There's zero evidence a diet of slightly below 200 g protein per day has any ill effects on kidney health or health in general.
how come amerilards don't ever get kidney issues then? they're probably pumping in tons of protein too along with fats an carbs
>he plans to live long
I want off this ride, anon
Any excess is basically wasting money. Protein powder is getting expensive here
Scientific studies have no more likelihood of being true than if you just flipped a coin
3 scenarios:
Natty bulking: going over 0.8g/lb has been shown to be unnecessary
Natty cutting: 1g/lb is the general recommendation
Enhanced: your body can use way more protein, go nuts and 1.2g/lb is the minimum
yes it is all a scam, thats why all the athletes doing strenght sports or bodybuilding eat tons of protons and drink whey simply so they could sell you protein powders, makes total sense
they eat ton of roids as well, if you are eating too much protein without roiding you are just pissing dollars
Scams can happen on large scale too, just because they're many to be wrong doesn't mean they're right. The entire milk industry is a scam, it's all been full government fueled propaganda since the 1950s, it is absolutely not necessary in human alimentations and yet americans consume a lot of it. Why would the protein supplement industry be any different ? How can you possibly know if said athletes aren't just overfeeding ?
>a liquid consumed for thousands of years is a scam and not necessary for human health
post nose
>autisticly optimizes nutrition
>dies at average age
LMAO peatards on suicide watch
We used to draw blood to cure basically every illness for centuries, does that mean it's a good thing and necessary for human health ? Just because it's old doesn't mean it's right. South Koreans drink 10 times less milk than americans and have a better life expectancy. But I guess your brain got fully rotten by state and dairy lobby propaganda.
>Muh Got Milk
i blame that on mutts getting their dick chopped and the fluoridated water
correlation is not causation
>We used to draw blood to cure basically every illness for centuries, does that mean it's a good thing and necessary for human health ?
Yeah.
Sponsorships pay the bills, not doing sports.
It's also on a curve, if you weigh 180 lbs and you get 179g of protein, that doesn't mean you're going to gain zero muscle.
The difference between the MINIMUM daily protein intake and the MAXIMUM beneficial amount of protein is about 1.5 kg of muscle. Negligible.
https://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
>The difference between the MINIMUM daily protein intake and the MAXIMUM beneficial amount of protein is about 1.5 kg of muscle. Negligible.
where does it say that in your link? i dont see it
What’s never explained is if it’s X g per kg body weight or lean body mass. Those are substantially different numbers, and I would argue that LBM should be used as the metric but no one ever makes the distinction.
why is everyone so fricking braindead? why is nobody fricking capable of using their own common sense and live their life doing things that work for them? why does everything have to be backed by science? especially when science can give you two completely contradictory results based on x,y and z studies.
if i eat 60g of protein i dont make gains. if i eat 150g of protein i make gains. if i eat 300g of protein i dont make any more gains than if i ate 150g. i will now eat 150g of protein (these are all with same TDEE, carb/fat adjusted accordingly). I dont give A FRICK if some moron now tells me that I could eat only 60g of protein.
try eating 125 and see what happens
Yeah,i'll believe Don Layman instead.
he says in this interview that even if you ate all veggie protein, at 120g you'd likely be hitting all your required aminos
>he says in this interview that even if you ate all veggie protein, at 120g you'd likely be hitting all your required aminos
Anon I'm not eating 5 kilos worth of food everyday just to get what I can get from a 150g steak
A lot of protein advice from people who look like shit (the video) or people who don't post physique, interesting
stop replying to so many posts you fricking double Black person
What are you talking about? Everybody knew that 2g was too much
> scientists and morons here tell me to eat 1g of protein per kg
> but the more meat I consume every day the quicker I gain muscle
I’m not listening to basedentists anymore and I constantly do the complete 180 of anything modern science pushes.
No need
after reading the thread, does this mean my 70~90 ballpark of protein intake every day is enough to lose weight while retaining muscle? I just had lunch and I hit 51g protein between lunch and breakfast but I want to make sure I'm not fricking myself with too much or too little. I've been trying to figure out ways to up my protein intake but this whole thread has me second guessing. I could always just have two shakes per day instead of one but I'd rather save that money if I can help it.
I broke a plateau after switching from 0.6g/lb to 0.75g/lb (about 1.66g/kg.) Everyone has a point that works best for them.
There is also a confounding factor that the body basically only gives a frick about 3-5 significant protein boluses per day and doesn't integrate any additional boluses into skeletal muscle.
What morons don't realize is when they see and hear these bb talking about eating big to get big that they are on massive doses of steroids. Protein powder is just marked up powdered milk with a bunch of nasty shit mixed in. It's really simple. Unless you hate yourself and have an eating disorder or do drugs to alter your body like a troony. The simple fact is just train hard, rest, and eat when you're hungry and satiated. Quit making it complicated and listening to broscience.
Leucine triggers muscle protein synthesis
2-3g of leucine is the upper limit where more won't trigger more MPS
3g of leucine is achieved by eating 40 grams of chicken protein, or 31 grams of milk protein, different foods have different leucine content
there is a refractory period, and you can peak this naturally about 5 times per day
so you can eat however you want, you can have a massive protein meal and you will digest over time and account for multiple refractory periods, but the way to trigger a growth state consistantly is to have 30-40g of protein 5 times per day