Some kind of OHP and some kind of lateral and some kind of reverse fly for a number of reps that lets you use the desired form for sufficient reps, & the number of sets that cause an adaptation that you can recover & super-compensate for.
Not that it matters what I do or that you should copy me, but I'm currently doing smith machine behind the neck press, & dumbbell laterals one arm at a time laying side on, on a 45 degree angle bench, (and same thing for rear delt except on a flat bench).
Two more things just reading your post OP. Firstly facepulls aren't amazing, (they're fine, just not exceptional), for rear delts because your rear delt (& midback, whether you like it or not) strength in bringing the upper arm back is going to exceed your external rotator cuffs strength to externally rotate. You could do a version of face pulls where you just accept that you're not going to get full external rotation but try your best anyway & have the actual rear delts themselves be the limiting muscle, rather than stopping when you can no longer get full external rotation.
Secondly, if you can do a free weight version of a lift instead of a cable, when the exercise is very light, then you probably should. I find that when there's some friction on a cable machine, the friction is like a fixed amount of friction rather than it being a % of the weight. That disproportionately fricks up light exercises like cable laterals or cable reverse flys. It does more than simply limits you knowing if you're actually a bit stronger or weaker that day. It can kick you right out of the rep range you intended to be in, & it can make the lift just less effective at building muscle by making the concentric more difficult and the eccentric easier, which really isn't what you want if you're training for hypertrophy or almost anything else for that matter. If you can get a free weight and just twist your body around so that you're essentially doing the same thing as if you were on a cable machine, it's better. You don't have to worry about the friction of gravity changing from one session to the next.
>facepulls aren't amazing
They're three birds with one stone (Rotator cuff, traps, rear delts) and make my rear delts sore (About 4x15), so I'll take them.
>and make my rear delts sore
no they don't, garbage movement, anterior delt only >it does my rotator cuff
it does a number on it, it's not an muscle u know, u shouldn't even use "do" describing it
https://i.imgur.com/8wFR8u6.jpeg
I don't know. I just do machine lateral raises and facepulls
>WHAT ARE THE BEST SHOULDER WORKOUTS?
isolating rear delt and side delt separately, 2 sets twice a week and yer done
A) Ohp. It does hit the lateral delts. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
B) Rows. Same reason. You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
There's nothing wrong with isolations. There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy. Thich means there is no best lift. There are those that work and those that don't. In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
>. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
what isolation? there is no such thing as mechanical tension, there is only tension or force >You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
no u can't, u can't "engage" nor "hit" rear nor side delt with any of the shit mentioned so far >There's nothing wrong with isolations.
true, but there's plenty wrong with not isolations >There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy.
yeah if it works it works - daa >Thich means there is no best lift.
it doesn't follow u fricking imbecile lol >In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
which ones, because i know for certain how to isolate rear delt, and i know for certain how to isolate side delt and i know for certain, from experience that they both work flawlessly
>Strict dumbbell lat raises, standing or sitting (I prefer sitting). >Choose a weight that lets you do 8-12 clean reps. No swinging, lower the slowly.
it don't work slowly it don't work fast it don't work heavy, and it don't work light because it doesn't fricking work
it's front delt movement only, side delt is wrapped around shoulder bones same for rear delt - it's not gonna flex properly when it's being poked by bone lol
u get ZEOR time under tension, u get impingement, any growth is DESPITE doing them, most likely though u got fat and/or convinced urself u grew
i assure u, once u isolate said muscle heads u will see difference overnight
BTW, it's impossible to isolate the heads of the deltoids. OHP is as much lateral head as it is anterior head. Lateral raises also work the rear head a lot. What everyone does for rear delts also works the lateral raises a lot. Even with those "isolations" the traps are involved and with most of the rear delt "isolations" the scapular retraction muscles often get involved including the traps. For most muscle groups including the delts, there is no such thing as an isolation.
... You realize you can do a lateral raise with one hand and feel your shoulder with your other hand to check what muscles get involved right? And notice that the side delt is indeed contracting, right ...?
"Poked by bone"? And you call other people schizo, jesus fricking christ.
>And notice that the side delt is indeed contracting, right ...?
it is trying to contract, but can't, it is sputtering because shoulder bones are pressing muscle - no time under tension, no growth
>Strict dumbbell lat raises, standing or sitting (I prefer sitting). >Choose a weight that lets you do 8-12 clean reps. No swinging, lower the slowly.
it don't work slowly it don't work fast it don't work heavy, and it don't work light because it doesn't fricking work
it's front delt movement only, side delt is wrapped around shoulder bones same for rear delt - it's not gonna flex properly when it's being poked by bone lol
u get ZEOR time under tension, u get impingement, any growth is DESPITE doing them, most likely though u got fat and/or convinced urself u grew
i assure u, once u isolate said muscle heads u will see difference overnight
>and make my rear delts sore
no they don't, garbage movement, anterior delt only >it does my rotator cuff
it does a number on it, it's not an muscle u know, u shouldn't even use "do" describing it
[...] >WHAT ARE THE BEST SHOULDER WORKOUTS?
isolating rear delt and side delt separately, 2 sets twice a week and yer done
>. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
what isolation? there is no such thing as mechanical tension, there is only tension or force >You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
no u can't, u can't "engage" nor "hit" rear nor side delt with any of the shit mentioned so far >There's nothing wrong with isolations.
true, but there's plenty wrong with not isolations >There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy.
yeah if it works it works - daa >Thich means there is no best lift.
it doesn't follow u fricking imbecile lol >In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
which ones, because i know for certain how to isolate rear delt, and i know for certain how to isolate side delt and i know for certain, from experience that they both work flawlessly
only isolation of rear delt grows it,, only isolation of side delt grows it
what is isolation of rear delt?
what is isolation of side delt?
A) Ohp. It does hit the lateral delts. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
B) Rows. Same reason. You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
There's nothing wrong with isolations. There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy. Thich means there is no best lift. There are those that work and those that don't. In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
>isolations don't
will tell me what is the isolation
i forgot reverse pec deck
thats the holy trinity anyways
it's garbage bot, none of those work all of them will frick up shoulder
BTW, it's impossible to isolate the heads of the deltoids. OHP is as much lateral head as it is anterior head. Lateral raises also work the rear head a lot. What everyone does for rear delts also works the lateral raises a lot. Even with those "isolations" the traps are involved and with most of the rear delt "isolations" the scapular retraction muscles often get involved including the traps. For most muscle groups including the delts, there is no such thing as an isolation.
>BTW, it's impossible to isolate the heads of the deltoids.
so there is no side delt isolation or rear delt isolation?
>Yes. The best case scenario is that the brain recruits a head or two of the deltoids over the heads and other muscles involved during the exercises.
well no, i have found them, both of them, back raise 8th minute is rear delt:
and side delt isolation is in picture - can u tell me what is in the picture bot?
for muscle growth u need time under muscular tension on muscle belly, half a minute of continuous tension in static hold or slow pumping motion when static hold is not feasible
to isolate rear delt u do back raises:
>back raise 8th minute is rear delt:
[Embed]
on all 4, one db, weight lies entirely on trike and there u raise it up - light weight
to isolate side delt u stand straight with one db, bend ur torso away from db and there u internally rotate shoulder, u can do micro-extensions of elbow with internal rotation
that internal rotation is opposed by stretched lat - that's what isolates side delt, without impingement
easy
https://i.imgur.com/8wFR8u6.jpeg
I don't know. I just do machine lateral raises and facepulls
>WHAT ARE THE BEST SHOULDER
those are ONLY shoulder" workout" that work lol, everything else is garbage, all of it
>those are ONLY shoulder" workout" that work lol, everything else is garbage, all of it
and when u get delts, which is not even twice a week two sets max that exceed half a minute u get delts of lust, i have seen in peoples eye's twinkles, i have felt grabby hands on them, that is it, that is what humans are capable of - git delts, because everything that's supposedly "doing them" ruins them, i am very fond of my delts, they are larger than chest, that is how it should be
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>they are larger than chest, that is how it should be
idk really, because i just discovered chest isolation in static hold, and clavicle head separately, so idk what is the true ratio - it will get exactly same attention, 2 sets, twice a week, till failure or when i don't feel like pushing on my palms/elbows anymore, like when it slides from i'm doing sth to i just hold on my tendons and joints, compression, it's weird though, simply flexing in front of u with forearms in line shoulders protracted, it feels like i need palms past each other but putting them on elbow crease seems a bit too far, at least when i compress with elbows there is no discussion about hand placement, ur forearm lengthor less of a spacer, hands up and there u are all pec, anterior delt is soft, u can palpate it
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
in ur static hold of choice - u can move it up and down, u can flex and extend ur spine, if u sit and rest ur elbows on knees u can press down and get different tension, shoulder protracted, no weight, no impingement, compression, cool factor - old timers did it, it's the only thing that works i.e - and that's important - time under muscular tension on muscle belly and muscle's fibers are straight and free to contract between attachments >just lat raises, frick ur shoulder bend ur neck raises
no, botto 😀
>Side Delts
Dumbbell lateral raises (I do "Super RoM" where you raise your arms all the way over your head and keep going until I cannot break parallel)
Single cable lateral raises (Set the cable to hand height and raise with the cable behind you)
Dual cable lateral raises (Set the cables low and do the raise, making an X with the cables behind you)
Dual cable Y raises (Set the cables low and swing out, make sure you swap which hand is over/under each set)
Upright rows are okay too, but I do them sparingly >Rear delts
Single arm cross body fly (Set the cable to shoulder height, reach across your chest, then pull the cable across by arcing your arm out)
Single arm reverse pec deck (Same as above, just sit on the pec deck sideways, reach the handle across your check, then swing out your arm)
Cable rope face pulls (Sometimes I set the cable lower, around hip height, to turn it into an upright row/face pull hybrid)
Rear delt focused rows (Basically row to your clavicle/throat) >Front delts
The only acceptable front delt exercise is OHP, which is an entirely optional lift
Front delts get hit plenty via regular chest work. They really, REALLY don't need isolated training
Some kind of OHP and some kind of lateral and some kind of reverse fly for a number of reps that lets you use the desired form for sufficient reps, & the number of sets that cause an adaptation that you can recover & super-compensate for.
Not that it matters what I do or that you should copy me, but I'm currently doing smith machine behind the neck press, & dumbbell laterals one arm at a time laying side on, on a 45 degree angle bench, (and same thing for rear delt except on a flat bench).
Two more things just reading your post OP. Firstly facepulls aren't amazing, (they're fine, just not exceptional), for rear delts because your rear delt (& midback, whether you like it or not) strength in bringing the upper arm back is going to exceed your external rotator cuffs strength to externally rotate. You could do a version of face pulls where you just accept that you're not going to get full external rotation but try your best anyway & have the actual rear delts themselves be the limiting muscle, rather than stopping when you can no longer get full external rotation.
Secondly, if you can do a free weight version of a lift instead of a cable, when the exercise is very light, then you probably should. I find that when there's some friction on a cable machine, the friction is like a fixed amount of friction rather than it being a % of the weight. That disproportionately fricks up light exercises like cable laterals or cable reverse flys. It does more than simply limits you knowing if you're actually a bit stronger or weaker that day. It can kick you right out of the rep range you intended to be in, & it can make the lift just less effective at building muscle by making the concentric more difficult and the eccentric easier, which really isn't what you want if you're training for hypertrophy or almost anything else for that matter. If you can get a free weight and just twist your body around so that you're essentially doing the same thing as if you were on a cable machine, it's better. You don't have to worry about the friction of gravity changing from one session to the next.
>facepulls aren't amazing
They're three birds with one stone (Rotator cuff, traps, rear delts) and make my rear delts sore (About 4x15), so I'll take them.
>and make my rear delts sore
no they don't, garbage movement, anterior delt only
>it does my rotator cuff
it does a number on it, it's not an muscle u know, u shouldn't even use "do" describing it
>WHAT ARE THE BEST SHOULDER WORKOUTS?
isolating rear delt and side delt separately, 2 sets twice a week and yer done
moron.
bottot please, 😀
what is the isolation that supposedly doesn't work?
A) Ohp. It does hit the lateral delts. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
B) Rows. Same reason. You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
There's nothing wrong with isolations. There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy. Thich means there is no best lift. There are those that work and those that don't. In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
>. It doesn't isolate them but it still puts more mechanical tension on them than isolation can.
what isolation? there is no such thing as mechanical tension, there is only tension or force
>You can also engage the rear delts more by using an ez bar.
no u can't, u can't "engage" nor "hit" rear nor side delt with any of the shit mentioned so far
>There's nothing wrong with isolations.
true, but there's plenty wrong with not isolations
>There's nothing wrong with anything that causes enough tension to hypertrophy.
yeah if it works it works - daa
>Thich means there is no best lift.
it doesn't follow u fricking imbecile lol
>In my experience, with delts, isolations don't.
which ones, because i know for certain how to isolate rear delt, and i know for certain how to isolate side delt and i know for certain, from experience that they both work flawlessly
Strict dumbbell lat raises, standing or sitting (I prefer sitting).
Choose a weight that lets you do 8-12 clean reps. No swinging, lower the slowly.
>Strict dumbbell lat raises, standing or sitting (I prefer sitting).
>Choose a weight that lets you do 8-12 clean reps. No swinging, lower the slowly.
it don't work slowly it don't work fast it don't work heavy, and it don't work light because it doesn't fricking work
it's front delt movement only, side delt is wrapped around shoulder bones same for rear delt - it's not gonna flex properly when it's being poked by bone lol
u get ZEOR time under tension, u get impingement, any growth is DESPITE doing them, most likely though u got fat and/or convinced urself u grew
i assure u, once u isolate said muscle heads u will see difference overnight
BTW, it's impossible to isolate the heads of the deltoids. OHP is as much lateral head as it is anterior head. Lateral raises also work the rear head a lot. What everyone does for rear delts also works the lateral raises a lot. Even with those "isolations" the traps are involved and with most of the rear delt "isolations" the scapular retraction muscles often get involved including the traps. For most muscle groups including the delts, there is no such thing as an isolation.
... You realize you can do a lateral raise with one hand and feel your shoulder with your other hand to check what muscles get involved right? And notice that the side delt is indeed contracting, right ...?
"Poked by bone"? And you call other people schizo, jesus fricking christ.
>And notice that the side delt is indeed contracting, right ...?
it is trying to contract, but can't, it is sputtering because shoulder bones are pressing muscle - no time under tension, no growth
>You realize
bot that muscle fibers need to be free of interference between attachment points to get meaningful time under tension?
Behind the neck press
>Behind the neck press
anterior delt only
here:
only isolation of rear delt grows it,, only isolation of side delt grows it
what is isolation of rear delt?
what is isolation of side delt?
Ok schizo.
no schizo bot, U BOT, u who said here bot
>isolations don't
will tell me what is the isolation
>what is isolation of rear delt?
>what is isolation of side delt?
so what isolates rear delt anwd what isolates side delt?
DBOHP
Lateral raises
bent over lateral raises
btn + lat raise
no other answers
i forgot reverse pec deck
thats the holy trinity anyways
it's garbage bot, none of those work all of them will frick up shoulder
>BTW, it's impossible to isolate the heads of the deltoids.
so there is no side delt isolation or rear delt isolation?
Yes. The best case scenario is that the brain recruits a head or two of the deltoids over the heads and other muscles involved during the exercises.
>Yes. The best case scenario is that the brain recruits a head or two of the deltoids over the heads and other muscles involved during the exercises.
well no, i have found them, both of them, back raise 8th minute is rear delt:
and side delt isolation is in picture - can u tell me what is in the picture bot?
for muscle growth u need time under muscular tension on muscle belly, half a minute of continuous tension in static hold or slow pumping motion when static hold is not feasible
to isolate rear delt u do back raises:
>back raise 8th minute is rear delt:
[Embed]
on all 4, one db, weight lies entirely on trike and there u raise it up - light weight
to isolate side delt u stand straight with one db, bend ur torso away from db and there u internally rotate shoulder, u can do micro-extensions of elbow with internal rotation
that internal rotation is opposed by stretched lat - that's what isolates side delt, without impingement
easy
>WHAT ARE THE BEST SHOULDER
those are ONLY shoulder" workout" that work lol, everything else is garbage, all of it
>those are ONLY shoulder" workout" that work lol, everything else is garbage, all of it
and when u get delts, which is not even twice a week two sets max that exceed half a minute u get delts of lust, i have seen in peoples eye's twinkles, i have felt grabby hands on them, that is it, that is what humans are capable of - git delts, because everything that's supposedly "doing them" ruins them, i am very fond of my delts, they are larger than chest, that is how it should be
>they are larger than chest, that is how it should be
idk really, because i just discovered chest isolation in static hold, and clavicle head separately, so idk what is the true ratio - it will get exactly same attention, 2 sets, twice a week, till failure or when i don't feel like pushing on my palms/elbows anymore, like when it slides from i'm doing sth to i just hold on my tendons and joints, compression, it's weird though, simply flexing in front of u with forearms in line shoulders protracted, it feels like i need palms past each other but putting them on elbow crease seems a bit too far, at least when i compress with elbows there is no discussion about hand placement, ur forearm lengthor less of a spacer, hands up and there u are all pec, anterior delt is soft, u can palpate it
in ur static hold of choice - u can move it up and down, u can flex and extend ur spine, if u sit and rest ur elbows on knees u can press down and get different tension, shoulder protracted, no weight, no impingement, compression, cool factor - old timers did it, it's the only thing that works i.e - and that's important - time under muscular tension on muscle belly and muscle's fibers are straight and free to contract between attachments
>just lat raises, frick ur shoulder bend ur neck raises
no, botto 😀
>Compounds
Press
Shoulder DB Press
Weighted Pull ups
Barbell Rows to Chest
>Isolations
DB Lateral Raise
DB Back Flyes
what is the isolation of rear delt, what is the isolation of side delt - all of the shit u enumerated bot does not do delt, none of it
>ctrl+f
>upright row
>0 results
hmm
>hmm
impingement, anterior delt only, until impingement gets u then not even this 😀
do you lads prefer traditional dumbbell overhead press or the ARNOLD press?
>Side Delts
Dumbbell lateral raises (I do "Super RoM" where you raise your arms all the way over your head and keep going until I cannot break parallel)
Single cable lateral raises (Set the cable to hand height and raise with the cable behind you)
Dual cable lateral raises (Set the cables low and do the raise, making an X with the cables behind you)
Dual cable Y raises (Set the cables low and swing out, make sure you swap which hand is over/under each set)
Upright rows are okay too, but I do them sparingly
>Rear delts
Single arm cross body fly (Set the cable to shoulder height, reach across your chest, then pull the cable across by arcing your arm out)
Single arm reverse pec deck (Same as above, just sit on the pec deck sideways, reach the handle across your check, then swing out your arm)
Cable rope face pulls (Sometimes I set the cable lower, around hip height, to turn it into an upright row/face pull hybrid)
Rear delt focused rows (Basically row to your clavicle/throat)
>Front delts
The only acceptable front delt exercise is OHP, which is an entirely optional lift
Front delts get hit plenty via regular chest work. They really, REALLY don't need isolated training