>Trained from 14-26 natural
>First 4 yrs bro splits, next 4 years GSLP/531
>Last 4 natty years back to brosplits as I always saw better gains on them
4 years of cycles
>Cycle 1 16 weeks: 600 test cyp 10lbs gained easy pct
>Cycle 2 18 weeks: 600mg test E/500 deca 10mg deca first 6 weeks abandoned deca due to awful sides 8 weeks into cycle 4lbs gained awful pct
>Cycle 3 20 800 weeks test cyp/20mg anavar a day 8lbs gained very easy pct
Cycle 4 20 weeks 1g test 300 tren E 8lbs gained very hard PCT
My thoughts are the following. Most people won't get very big on cycle. I trained at roadhouse which is probably the most hardocre gym in my country, open gear dealing, lots of pros drop in, owned by an ex IFBB. Lots of advice and great atmosphere and the guys always say, gear won't make you huge, its almost 99% genetics.
I gained 30lbs on cycles, kept around 22lbs of that. If I compare that to what I gained natty from its about 20% more.
I saw guys with bad genetics take grams of test and other stuff and never even look like they lifted despite being dedicated and really putting effort in at the gym.
Ive also seen schoolboys who are lifting THE BAR on day one ump on cycles 6 months in and gain 40lbs in a year. It is completely genetic and response to gear is as genetic as propensity to gain muscle is.
If you are going to do a cycle do a test only cycle as its far less hard to recover from. Most of the crazy transformation and behaviour on tren etc is bullshit, roids are not a miracle drug, most guys on gear look DYEL. Trying a couple cycles won't hurt you. Its cheaper than buying protein powder. Use good labs like chiron. Avoid southern ghost, ROHM etc.
Don't bother with orals they are bullshit, test base and maybe something else, but deca will make you limp and anyone giving you magic ratios to avoid limp dick is bullshitting you.
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12 years and this is what you have to offer?
You're an idiot and you shouldn't have kids
most people won't look good natty or on gear. The teens here thinking its as easy as taking gear and training are victims of the anyoneone can succeed if they just try hard enough fallacy.
Its almost entirely genetic. And a skinny dweeb could have a better genetic response to gear than a 6,5 wide shouldered chad. Its all about how your body utilizes and tolerates drugs.
Stop telling the truth. Steroids are cheating and everyone on them looks like Mike Ohearn.
why do pictures of gear always look so rachet, like why is there dust on the lids, dirt and pubes everywhere, impossible to get this stuff without it looking like its been in a bunker for a century?
storing it out of the way, no one cares how pretty their vials look dog.
gee, i wonder who else has dusty dirty garbage they use in tandem with needles to inject themselves in secret?
>I saw better gains on a brosplit than strength-focused programmes
Who could've seen that coming? You should be a detective, OP.
Kek
you forgot how strong the moronic do sets of 5 and you need to squat to grow your arms starting strength drones were in the 2000s.
It was literally gospel online that isolation exercises were useless lol.
balls circumference before/after?
nuts shrink couple wekes in unless you take HCG. HCG stops testicular atrophy.
12 years of nothing if u don't have any titles ? I'd respect u if u said u're ifbb pro or something, and that's the reason i don't do gear or study chess games etc i just do these thing to set goals and work towards achieving them it feels so good winning a game, seeing a muscle grow, succesfully starting an engine that u just rebuilt with all the hard work u put in, i nno2 i won't feel good if i cheat/fraud or have someone else do it for me
didn't read, won't take the chemicals
Keep any kind of drug away from sunlight moron
>roids are not a miracle drug
Lolololololol
In 1 year you can be bigger than 10 year natties without even lifting a single weight.
>hard work bro! Gear doesn’t change that
Lmfao
Not OP but shut the frick up you feminine little b***hy c**t
Ty for your report. Do you plan on keep cruising or TRT?
>I’m a real boy!
>I earned this!
>I lifted the weights harder than everyone else I think, so you’re all b***hes
You're a feminine little b***h.
Post body
The steroids you’re taking make you so alpha and manly why wouldn’t you?
Wait… don’t tell me you’re roiding and look like shit LOL
Your turn
>screenshot.png
>no timestamp
Not than anon but try better or bait?
It's a screenshot of my IG dumb Black person not posting my actual files
>”oh shit forgot to change my filename”
Thats Christian Guzman. I have been terminally online consuming fitness content since 2011. I know everything.
You literally provided nothing of value. "Ohh dude bro split this, yo bro saw better gains bro". Post body of your physique from years 14-26. Also post recorded videos of your lifts. Oh you wont? Okay.
Christian Guzman?
why is fit full of larpers
You are emotional. Like my wife. You would make a good wife for the guy you replied to.
You're an angry chihuahua
roiders malding as usual
OP is correct and you don't know wtf you're talking about
The study you are citing didn't measure lean mass it measured total mass gained. Which is completely moronic because you gain a shit tonne of water weight while on cycle which you lose immediately after the test clears your system.
This is why teenagers should just be told don't do steroids, because they can be convinced of this moronic shit.
OP is literally agreeing with you.
>Most people won't get very big on cycle
Yes. Supraphysiological levels of test are required for growth from test. You probably won't grow much from TRT doses.
>I saw guys with bad genetics take grams of test and other stuff and never even look like they lifted despite being dedicated and really putting effort in at the gym.
The number of androgen receptors in your muscles are genetic. Yes.
alright op now post body
how much were you able to keep from the first cycle after PCT? I just started my first cycle
>600mg/test week 20 weeks
>thinking of adding anavar or turinabol at the end
have you ever tried to use proviron during PCT?
The manlet reveals herself
>deca/tren PCT
lmfao
Yes I am aware, I didn't feel like going into detail on dealing with these compunds to people who don't know the differences.
why did you tear up your natty card after 12 years?
Not OP but I tore mine up because I am 34 and all my lifts have stalled for months and finally realized natty lifting is a joke.
>gear doesn't even do anything bro that's why I'm utterly reliant on it
Roidtroony IQ
I will forever be convinced that brosplit is a meme unless you post body.
>I will forever be convinced that brosplit is a meme
you people make zero sense
as an older guy ill tell you a secret: all you powerlifting exercise kids look like dick. nobody fricking cares how much you can dead
the pic says it all, OP is probably some 70 IQ slavic troglodyte (the average roider)
>chiron labs
Nice, m8
>PCT even though he wants to do multiple cycles
why not just BnC. PCT is moronic
>its all genetics and gear is only gonna help a small amount
absolutely true. i've seen the transformations where some 18yo kid does a sarm cycle for 12 weeks and completely transforms, and my pathetic ass is blasting 600mg test, anavar, and EQ for 20 weeks and I barely look different despite bulking like mad and having my training perfectly on point. shits fricked.
If he's doing less than one cycle a year on average then pct rather then bnc is fine. If he was doing two blasts a year then I'd agree with you.
imo pct is a moronic idea unless you plan to take a multiyear break or quit altogether
the hormonal rollercoaster is unironically a lot worse for you than just staying on a TRT dose between cycles
not to mention you lose more gains and its unpleasant as frick.
If you're doing infrequent cycles then coming off maintains hpta functioning. There's no "hormonal rollercoaster", that's just vague nonsensical shit people spout that don't understand endocrinology.
>If you're doing infrequent cycles
per that famous dutch study, it takes at least 6 months for your HPTA to completely recover, and that's after a mild cycle. add 19-nors to the equation and its much longer.
>There's no "hormonal rollercoaster"
as anybody with a modicum of frauding will confirm, what mostly causes sides is not hormone levels themselves, but the VARIANCE of them.
you'll break out in acne and feel weird when your hormones change
and guess what, nowhere is that change more extreme than the start of pct
you go from ultrasupraphysiological levels to 0 within 2-4 weeks
this SUCKS
its much nicer for your body to instead drop to TRT levels.
so, yea, if you're not planning on a multi-year break, or quitting altogether, imo just blast and cruise.
Acne is a much more minor side effect than long term hpta suppression...
as long as you're maintaining your testicular health with HCG, hpta suppression is not a big deal
absolute worst case scenario for those not using HCG, you're forced on TRT early.
and i say early because even if you're a lifetime natty, by the time you're in your 50s at the latest, your test levels will nosedive and you're gonna want to get on TRT anyway.
>as long as you're maintaining your testicular health with HCG, hpta suppression is not a big deal
Blanket statement and not correct in 100% of cases.
>absolute worst case scenario for those not using HCG, you're forced on TRT early.
Which is a big deal for some people.
>by the time you're in your 50s at the latest, your test levels will nosedive and you're gonna want to get on TRT anyway.
Heavily lifestyle dependent. Again, your projecting your own preferences on others. Not everyone over 50 wants or needs trt.
I've been bnc-ing for years by the way. But telling people that cycling instead of just doing bnc from the outset is preferable in every aspect simply isn't true.
>Blanket statement and not correct in 100% of cases.
afak, the pituitary gland and hypothalamous don't degenerate in any respect from prolonged shutdown
its only the leydig cells in your testicles that can atrophy, and as long as you're using HCG, they won't.
>Which is a big deal for some people
its a pretty big deal for everyone, being forced to take a weekly injection for the rest of your life is not a small thing
im just saying, realistically, its only going to happen if you're a complete chode and brutally abuse roids
and even then its going to happen after many years of abuse, if at all. after all, plenty of ifbb pros have gone off and had kids, even after many years of permablasting.
>Heavily lifestyle dependent
not really.
the lifestyle dependant part is whether it happens in your 20s/30s. by your 50s, yea, you need TRT.
ok, maybe not NEED, maybe you're happy to live a low-t life at that age
but certainly your test will be in the shitter, regardless of what you do in your life, simply due to your age.
>I've been bnc-ing for years by the way
same.
>But telling people that cycling instead of just doing bnc from the outset is preferable in every aspect simply isn't true.
wtf?
im telling people to BnC instead of cycling, as i think pct is too harmful and unpleasant, and entire not worth it unless you're going off forever, or at least for a very long time.
>afak, the pituitary gland and hypothalamous don't degenerate in any respect from prolonged shutdown
This simply isn't correct.
>realistically, its only going to happen if you're a complete chode and brutally abuse roids
Also isn't correct.
>by your 50s, yea, you need TRT.
Again, this isn't correct.
>im telling people to BnC instead of cycling, as i think pct is too harmful and unpleasant, and entire not worth it unless you're going off forever, or at least for a very long time.
Which I suppose is fine see it's just your personal opinion, but it makes me wonder if you've ever actually done a pct since that's not most people's experience.
>This simply isn't correct.
>Also isn't correct.
>Again, this isn't correct.
ima need some citations.
>it makes me wonder if you've ever actually done a pct
twice.
first one was relatively painless, as it was my first lmao500test cycle. i felt ok at 1.5-2 months, and bloods indicated complete recovery at 4 months.
second one was not as painless, because i used deca too. didn't feel ok for 6+ months, and even then my levels were not fully recovered (~400ng/dl vs 700 pre-cycle)
after that i read about the benefits of bnc and haven't gone back. also have stopped fricking with 19nors because i read they're neurotoxic, frick that noise.
>deca or tren
everything I have read about this shit = no thanks
you can get fricking massive just off blasting test and recover easily (wow your body is good at using a natural thing that your body makes... no way...)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5833963/
>[anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism] is common as a cause of secondary hypogonadism in young men, especially because young men often use AAS
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11158037/
>Using total T criteria, incidence of hypogonadal T levels increased to about 20% of men over 60, 30% over 70 and 50% over 80 yr of age
That's far from every man over 50. Do some research before just parroting shit off forums. You've even acknowledged your own first pct went fine so not sure why you bought into the idea that it's some terrible ordeal.
>https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5833963/
not sure why you posted this, it mentions nothing new or related to my arguments
yes, steroids can cause hypogonadism, i never disputed that
i merely said that afaik, the cause of such is testicular atrophy leading to the death of leydig cells (? might have forgotten the name, whatever cells produce test)
>https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11158037/
this one was relevant
i'd like to point out it also mentions that
>longitudinal effects of age on both T and free T index (free T index = T/SHBG), with an average change of -0.124 nmol/L.yr and -0.0049 nmol T/nmol SHBG.yr
which says that test drops as age increases, which ofc we know is true
also the study says 20% of men over 60 have hypogonadal test, aka below some limit which i didn't see mentioned
that doesn't mean the other 80% have the same amount of test they had in their 20s, just that it wasn't low enough to hit the cutoff for technically hypogonadal
at any rate, its not like i have better stats or anything, im too lazy to do actual research
but i'd certainly advise most men over 35-40 to keep an eye on their test levels
younger too, if you're having mood/motivation/energy/lbido problems
>You've even acknowledged your own first pct went fine so not sure why you bought into the idea that it's some terrible ordeal.
it was pretty shitty. yea, i was fine after a while, but it was shitty.
and my second was even more shitty, and for much longer
*but the real issue is that it was shitty for no real reason or benefit*:
there was about a year gap between cycle 1 and cycle 2
cycle one was 12 weeks long, and i had normal bloods 4 months after stopping.
aka my body only got about 5 months of normal hormone levels before i cycled again
if instead i had BnC'd, i'd have gotten 9 months of normality AND avoided the shitty experience of pct
which is why, again, imo pct is only worth it if you're taking a multi-year break, or going off indefinitely.
>not sure why you posted this, it mentions nothing new or related to my arguments
Yes it does.
>yes, steroids can cause hypogonadism, i never disputed that
>i merely said that afaik, the cause of such is testicular atrophy leading to the death of leydig cells (? might have forgotten the name, whatever cells produce test)
And the study I showed you specifically said SECONDARY hypogonadism. Do you not know what that means? Don't make claims about things you obviously don't know about and haven't researched.
How much eq are you doing btw? I was in the same situation once and for me the game changer was adding nandrolone. That's when I started to blow up on just 300mg npp a week. No deca dick or mental sides, just horrific acne so over my chest, back, traps, neck, delts and even scalp for some reason.
rn im doing 1:1 test:EQ . 600/600. i would use nandrolone, but im on finasteride and i dont wanna frick my hair really bad. I still my try it on my next cycle though
Yeah, I started fin in December but I think I'm going to use deca again regardless. Braden Wuerch uses fin and npp and his hair is fine. I think the whole thing is theoretical bullshit cooked up by homosexuals like derek mpmd and that sexpat steve guy.
>I think the whole thing is theoretical bullshit cooked up by homosexuals like derek mpmd and that sexpat steve guy.
agreed.
do not combine fin and nadrolone.
it would be better for your hair to stop fin while using it, especially if you also lower your test dose.
5a reduction converts nadrolone to dihydronadrolone, which is MUCH LESS androgenic than regular nadrolone
if you're on fin, you won't be getting this effect.
I know the theoretical science spouted by morons like Derek but everyone that actually has used fin and nand together doesn't have any issues. Unless you have first hand experience then your opinion means nothing, especially when it's something you've just parroted from reddit or youtube.
What's your opinion on 531 BBB being a compromise between strength and bodybuilding?
TL;DR
>isolations are better than strength training for hypertrophy
>steroids work wonders, but not for everybody
>Trying a couple cycles won't hurt you. Its cheaper than buying protein powder.
Is this true?
no, there's always a risk. roids have lifelong measurable impacts, even if you take them only once. and they can hurt you. but a few cycles obviously have less chance of hurting you than blasting years on end.
Yes, it's true. Ignore:
He's a natty that doesn't know wtf he's talking about.
technically probably not, protein is fairly cheap too.
but in spirit, yea. gear is dirt cheap, especially if you stick to basic shit like test/deca/dbol, double especially if you brew it yourself from poweders
and in terms of growth/$, yea, its 100% true.
and re: the harmfulness of gear, it greatly depends on compound choice and level of preparation.
moderate, health conscious cycles done after proper research with all ancillaries available to prevent/stop problems are extremely safe.
permablasting harmful compounds like tren and heavy orals, without knowing what you're doing, yea, not safe at all.
>gear won't make you huge, its almost 99% genetics.
cheating roid troony cope
>Avoid southern ghost, ROHM
Nothing wrong with those labs. Is this thread just a shill for chiron?
SG has consistently sold under dosed test and bunk clean etc. they have a terrible reputation. ROHM was great now most stuff sold is bunk, it's one of the most faked labs.
>SG has consistently sold under dosed test and bunk clean etc. they have a terrible reputation.
Stop believing lies spread by rival labs.
>ROHM was great now most stuff sold is bunk, it's one of the most faked labs.
Agreed, lots of rohm fakes. But rohm itself is fine. You failed to clarify this in your previous post.
You sound like a Chiron shill. I've used his gear (before he ever had the website) and it's fine, but there's plenty other decent labs. Every domestic uk ugl is fine these days tbh. Personally I use Chilton now.
I mostly agree with all your points. I seriously have no idea why so many people on fit thank roids are a big deal. A test cycle is very tolerable and you'll still look natty, but like, big.
Sides are completely manageable too.
>You'll lose your hair
Finasteride 1mg per day
>Acne
Accutane 5-10mg per day
>Balls will shrink
HcG
>Lipids
If you don't eat trash this won't even happen
>This is a lot of drugs
You eat processed food and your blood has plastic in it, welcome to 2024.
Why you didn't touch masteron or primo?
Go try 600mg test/600mg masteron and HGH. You'll get bigger
600mg mast isn't going to do shit that 500mg deca didn't do. Hgh is a good shout but it's a rabbiy hole at higher dosages and that's when you start needing to do slin
he dropped the deca because of the sides, so it literally didnt do a damn thing for him.
getting something out of the compound is better than taking it 8 weeks then dropping it especially with something like deca with a moronic long half life
I wish the authorities got serious when it comes to persecuting this kind of substance abuse. Too many lives have been lost because of these drugs.
The police should be 24/7 on Instagram looking for roidfluencers, infiltrating their gyms and detaining anyone providing these substances to people.
Especially if they are being sold to minors, as it often happens.
Prison terms up to 20 years for trafficking these substances would be perfectly justified considering the amount of people they kill.
That is extremely outdated information.
>Wow a guy posted a image supporting his point
>guess I'll be a roidtroony
No-one is telling you to do that, you stood schizo gay. You're the one trying to control what other people do under the guise of being concerned for their health when in reality it's because you're a jealous little b***h.
>Y-y-you're just jealous of
>These gains
>I'm so confident
Okay.
>Unprovoked seething 24/7 over roiders
>I... I'm n... not jealous
Ok
>Someone questions my lifestyle
>you stood schizo
>gay
>you're a jealous little b***h.
>I'm secure
Okay.
It's called banter, homosexual
Brotha I was just making fun of the graph, u good, we chillin
>less harmful than weed
>According to the gif the guy posted
kek.
I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke weed, I don't vape, or smoke. I have one espresso a month and I don't do it for performance enhancement in the gym, I do it to feel something deep inside. I train because it's fun. I don't puss out and use roids when shit gets hard. I don't care what people think, bc my friends love me. Can you say the same, goku?
>i am a weird homosexual
>i want the government to make more rules to tell other people what they are allowed to do
>because i am a weird homosexual
>REHHHHHH
frick the government, never said roids should be illegal
>Literally letting fat-phucks on IST medicate themselves
>TOPKEK
I'd gladly legalize that shit, it's hilarious, let's darwin's laws take full effect and allows idiots to sterilize themselves. Why would I want the fricking feds to take that privilege away from me?
Legitimate question - what if you wanted to use PEDs for performance enhancement in a specific sport, and aren't just using it for aesthetics? Asking for my future self
>fat fricks self medicating
yeah the problem is most of IST is on benzos, ssris, autism pills, can't stop moving pills, moving too much pills etc.. etc.. etc..
steroids will never be legal because
>cheap
>actually work and improve your life
>yeah the problem is most of IST is on benzos, ssris, autism pills, can't stop moving pills, moving too much pills etc.. etc.. etc..
American projecting.
>known genetic disorder
Bullshit. People always pull the genetics card to avoid accountability. You're exactly the same as fatties claiming their obesity is genetic too.
And if he really had heart issues to begin with, the last thing he should've been doing is roiding. In that case he could've still lived a couple decades, maybe.
I know. This doesn't quit the fact that roidgays died all the time before the coronahoax.
Many others have gotten the vax and survived. Maybe he'd be alive if he hadn't fricked up his organs with roids.
>I have one espresso a month
This is the equivalent of smoking around 2grams of cannabis daily or snorting 5 lines of cocaine from a taiwanese prostitute on a windy saturday night.
What if it isn't windy but is instead slightly overcast?
At that point why snort cocaine.
Windy? At least partially cloudy anon.
Nobody ever died from using steroids.
He died because of the vax
this but unironically. growing shrooms can get you jailed but blasting your nuts off is not that big of a deal lmao.
Police are some of the heaviest users so why would they frick with their own supply?
>guy with known genetic disorder that caused weird cramping and spasms dies after getting covid vaccine
>we need to ban steroids to save the children
Joe said it himself that his health was compromised because of the vax and felt peer pressured into taking it.
decent bait
>Cycle 3 20 800 weeks
thats a lot of weeks anon. how old are you?
To the guys who use gear; do you get some kind of prescription from a doctor or are you just throwing caution to the wind and trusting some random drug dealer you met at the gym?
roidtrannies usually brag about how easy it is to order online these days, so thats what i'd guess
Neither of those, obviously.
ah, i too enjoy injecting mold and filth. where the frick is that being stored, a kennel?
>Genetics determine your response to drugs
People don't get this: There are 4 possible options-
1) - Shitty muscle genetics, Shitty steroid tolerance - meaning muscles take long to grow and you don't respond well to steroids
2) - Amazing muscle genetics, shitty steroid tolerance - muscles grow fast natty, body still doesn't respond that well to steroids
3) - Shitty muscle genetics, amazing steroid tolerance - even small doses of steroids can have profound results
4) - Amazing muscle genetics, amazing steroid tolerance - This is the class of Ronnie Coleman and Arnold.
Until anyone's first cycle, nobody will know what their tolerance to steroids will be. For every person blasting 2g of test and gaining 20lbs, there's someone who only needed 500g to see the same difference.
>"no, no, guys, I swear, I'm a roidtroony but I got swole due to my genes!!! trust me!!!"
19-nors with long half lives = awful PCT's, normal test/dht derived compounds = easy PCT who woulda thunk it
tldr version is your genes determine your limits more than anything else
no shit sherlock
>filename
Larp
Yeah even on gear it seems you'll get bottlenecked by your generically predetermined androgen receptor density.
>steroids are not a miracle drug
>saw a kid gain 30lbs of muscle in 6 months
>dyel nattygays on a crusade against roids
Why do you gays care so much? Just stay natty and dyel. Let others live their life and make progress.
Thanks anon, informative read. I always suspected it’s 99% genetics. Otherwise anybody on gear could look like Jay Cutler
should i do 20mg dbol per day for last two months of my test & primo cycle?
A friend of mine has a pre employee drug screening coming up. He’s on steroids. Specifically Test, Tren, Arimidex, Nolvadex, and accutane. Will any of these cause a failed 5 or 10 panel pre employee drug screening?
Any amount of feedback on this would be very very appreciated
Impossible to know man there's not a universal drug test
i did around 70mg test c a week (yes only 70mg) for close to 2 years, eating random food and only training at home with some shitty dumbbells and all my friends noticed, even had a couple joking about roids (made me spill spaghetti a bit, thankfully i'm a bit spastic anyways so no noticed)
wonder how a real cycle would go