Wendler started off saying 5/3/1 then boring but big, no exceptions
Then sold a couple more books and said actually you can do all sorts of things but first set last is the best
Then said actually the 5/3/1 sets are pretty dumb and the meat is the templates
Now only does bodyweight corcuits with a weighted vest
I guess wendler himself needed more
531 started out being sold on simplicity and consistent gains over the long term. Now there's a billion fricking ways to do it, most of which aren't even 5/3/1 anymore.
Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
And maybe push a sled with a weighted vest, who knows because the books didn't go through an editing process.
>Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
i'm admittedly an idiot but still i couldn't believe how confusing it was to try and read through these books to decide what the frick i was supposed to do
531 started out being sold on simplicity and consistent gains over the long term. Now there's a billion fricking ways to do it, most of which aren't even 5/3/1 anymore.
Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
And maybe push a sled with a weighted vest, who knows because the books didn't go through an editing process.
Remember that 5/3/1 is designed as a cookie cutter program/system to be used by the masses. Wendler never ran 5/3/1 himself, nor does he use it in coaching. You use his templates until you have a better feel for programming to your needs. With that said, the 5/3/1 template is a great starting point and the more principles are good for life.
I did Smolov and smolov jr. It wasn’t long term sustainable though, afterwards moved on to 6x a week bulgarian.
I'm not surprised this is the type of lifter that dislikes 5/3/1.
531 started out being sold on simplicity and consistent gains over the long term. Now there's a billion fricking ways to do it, most of which aren't even 5/3/1 anymore.
Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
And maybe push a sled with a weighted vest, who knows because the books didn't go through an editing process.
>Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
i'm admittedly an idiot but still i couldn't believe how confusing it was to try and read through these books to decide what the frick i was supposed to do
[...]
Remember that 5/3/1 is designed as a cookie cutter program/system to be used by the masses. Wendler never ran 5/3/1 himself, nor does he use it in coaching. You use his templates until you have a better feel for programming to your needs. With that said, the 5/3/1 template is a great starting point and the more principles are good for life.
[...]
I'm not surprised this is the type of lifter that dislikes 5/3/1.
531 is a good base program if you understand what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. There's a shitload of different versions of it for a reason. The basic template itself is a good core that you can build upon with additional volume and different weights. If you're just trying to get stronger in general at different exercises and at a manageable pace, then it's good, since you can fit a lot of different shit into a single workout without burning yourself out.
Personally, it helped me break through a few plateaus that I've been stuck on for months.
Is it a good program to run if you're trying to compete? I don't know, maybe not, maybe yes, you'll probably have more success elsewhere.
I've ran programs like sheiko, smolov, pyramid sets, ladder sets and some weird shit I made up myself.
For me - too much volume or low reps on near 1RM intensity burns me out after a few weeks and I stagnate or my body gives up and I start to regress on the weights.
On my own modified version of 531 I have adjusted the amount of volume and intensity so that I don't burn myself out and my body doesn't feel like it's trying to kill itself, so I'd say it's pretty good and pretty enjoyable.
But if you're trying to peak for a competition, go look for something else, 531 is VERY slow and it's built around you just liking to workout.
It's good to read up on stuff if you're gonna follow strength training too. Intensity inregards to powerlifting stuff is just %of 1rm, it's not used the way HIT people use it. You can have high intensity days that aren't super fatiguing if you aren't training to failure on all your sets. Reading through some of these books are good even if you don't follow the program. I read through some of sheikos book for ideas even though I'm not ready to get on any kind of full on block periodization like he programs
>you can do anything to the program
5/3/1 is fricking moronic for this reason, there is no such thing as "5/3/1" except for the simple wave progression for the top sets which you can bolt on to any other program you wanted anyway and add arbitrary amounts of volume and accessories; are you doing 5/3/1 at that point?
It seems like strength training can be divided into getting stronger by getting better at the lift training it all the time (sheiko) and getting stronger by training everything that goes into doing the movement as a whole through accessory/assistance exercises (westside). Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are generally the two paths past a certain point from what I've seen
I've program hopped several times, rpe type programs, sheiko, etc
I always seem to make my way back to a 5/3/1 variation of some kind
Usually it's the simplest strength template with assorted accessories
Make the majority of my gains with it as well
For whatever that's worth
Anyone that has any real progress on 5/3/1 ends up doing a shit ton of accessories. It's the accessories that make a difference, not a few reps of sub maximal work.
5/3/1 is the routine people go on just before quitting lifting. People inconsistent in the gym are always like "I'm on 5/3/1" but they've made no progress. It's the stagnation step before total quitting.
I almost became this person. I was basically that npc that I went SS->Greyskull->531, with progressively shittier progress. I probably would have quit had I not decided to ditch 531.
You should do linear progression like SS, Greyskull etc. until you can't add weight from workout to workout. Then do Madcow until you plateau. Then switch to some 531 variation. Just do direct arm work from day one to avoid powershitter look.
>do linear progression like SS, Greyskull etc. until you can't add weight from workout to workout.
so do it for one session? can people seriously beat their 5rm every week? I don't believe you. Anybody making gains on "linear progression" is just too much of a pussy to find his actual 5rm on the first session.
All progress is linear. As long as you took a set to failure your body will adapt to it and you will have a higher max next time. Note that even one more rep with the same weight is a higher max.
If you genuinely think that it's because you're peak dunning-kruger. Once you get advanced enough progress it's no linear and simply training to failure doesn't automatically result in adaptation. You're talking like a complete noob to strength training.
i personally found 531 for beginners really well rounded. i went on to 531 bodybuilding after that, 4 days to match my schedule. don’t get too hung up on the programming if you're starting out. get the lifts in, and if you absolutely know that you're not progressing, then change something small before ditching a whole program. it'll make you burned out on lifting entirely with the amount of conflicting resources there are.
>am i wasting my time
strengthwise? Was as follows for me over the course of 3 months >start >Squat 1x71kg >Bench 1x51kg >Deadlift 1x81kg >OHP 1x36kg >3 months >Squat 3x91kg >Bench 3x56kg >Deadlift 3x106kg >OHP 3x41kg
my Deadlift could've been way more. I only had 106kg at hand. The progression itself is too slow to start out as a complete beginner. After 3 weeks I had to 20+ reps on my squat and bench amrap sets and 10+ on my bench and OHP ones. That stuff was super fatiguing so the assistance lifts barely went up in weight which are mostly resposnible for size.
So if you want to look good use a different program
If you want to look good then you have to progress past squatting your bodyweight. The assistance lifts arent responsible for size. Progress in any lift is. You did alright but if you want to progress faster learn to raise the weight to where you fail way before 20 reps.
yeah the progression was just not for beginners at all. it was rather weird. my problem is when i use a linear program i just stall way earlier. there is something about doing those dumbass amrap sets where i want to shoot myself before starting them that enables me to not stall. hated it >you have to progress past squatting your bodyweight
stats were 178cm, 70kg at the time
Submax training can and does work but Wendlers just another bullshit e-huckster for low-T boomers, 5/3/1 as he prescribes it (shit ton of compound volume, then dips AND chins AND abs every day lol lmao) will overtrain you unless you do literal meme weights on the accessory/supplemental whatever he calls it, or eat so much that you get fat like SS
All that really matters for the main compound is the AMRAP top set and maybe 3 sets at his "FSL" weight to follow it, the rest of the compound sets are junk, the 5/3 part is especially dumb
If you need an Excel spreadsheet to work out then you're probably a redditor
>writes up a bare bones HIT program where you warm up and then do a single set with 100% intensity hitting your X rep MAX >calls it submaximal training >people try it and it works >they add volume to it and change it entirely and then build a dyel cult around it
Such a strange series of books.
I'm currently doing 5/3/1 BBB but a bit changed: I do 5/3/1, then 3 sets of the last weight before the main one (second set last I guess), then 5*10 with the other lift (so ohp when benching, rdl when squatting, etc.). Only thing I've added is pull-ups after bench/ohp. It works fine.
Now I'm going to start using my home gym, so I can't do deadlifts and standing ohp. I can also go more often than 4 days, so I was thinking the following ppl split, what do you think:
5/3/1 ssl bench - BBB ohp - incline bench
5/3/1 pull-ups - BBB rows - barbell curls
5/3/1 squat - BBB rdl
5/3/1 ohp - BBB bench - incline bench
5/3/1 rows - BBB pull-ups - barbell curl
5/3/1 rdl - BBB squat
Rest
What is your goal here? 531 is for progressing lifts once per week. You're doing them all twice for no reason and you're adding sets when it's actually about how many reps you can do.
I already have but basically adding sets does nil and the program is for progressing lifts 1x per week via one set to failure and you should do it that's what you want to do and thus that is what you should focus on. All variants were written because redditors pay instead of pirate and redditors asked Jim for variants with added volume.
5 months ago
Anonymous
So what's the best volume approach?
Pyramid down after the top set?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Adding sets does nil.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Hmm. I guess I don't fully understand why
5 months ago
Anonymous
Because your body adds muscle in response to you doing a set that was difficult enough for it to deem more muscle necessary. If a set can be repeated then it's not nearly difficult enough and in response to you repeating it all the jody has to do is repair the muscle it has which is already enough to do said series of sets.
5 months ago
Anonymous
>3x12 is moronic >if you can do it three times then you’re not progressing, don’t even bother
5 months ago
Anonymous
Are you saying you should only ever do 1 set per exercise?
5 months ago
Anonymous
Aside from the warmups, yes.
5 months ago
Anonymous
No. Volume is important.
5 months ago
Anonymous
Volume is only important if you're practicing your form, in other words peaking a lift or working on your balance in a bodyweight movement.
[...]
[...]
[...]
Mentzerhomosexuals you need to be 18 to be o this website
I don't actually agree with Mentzers idea of infrequency. I think a decent frequency is necessary for the sarcoplasmic gains which make you bigger and stronger just like myofibrilar gains and greatly support the progress of your single set to failure thus increasing the myofibrilar gains.
He was complety correct about there being no need to ever replicate a set in hypertrophy training.
I already have but basically adding sets does nil and the program is for progressing lifts 1x per week via one set to failure and you should do it that's what you want to do and thus that is what you should focus on. All variants were written because redditors pay instead of pirate and redditors asked Jim for variants with added volume.
Adding sets does nil.
Aside from the warmups, yes.
Mentzerhomosexuals you need to be 18 to be o this website
>simplicity
Brainlet here, but I’ve never seen a more complicated program than 532. Granted i never read the book, but damn all templates and calcs I find online always have some sort of weird parameters with millions of options. >yeah but it’s sooo customizable!
When does it stop being 531 then? I need a program that I will be able to recover from, adding stuff is no problem.
He wrote the books because redditors pay for them, not because they're good. What he got was right was that you can progress once per week with two warmups and a set to failure and he wrote up a neat little way to log it and get some variation in the rep ranges culminating in a monthly 1rm update on your PL total.
You should only do it if you specifically want to progress the power lifts and you want to lift at 1x frequency and if this is the case then the base program with a set of dips and chinups to failure once or twice a week is what you need, not the reddit bullshit.
Pretty much, I can only work out Saturday and Sunday so I do a bench and squat day 531BBB, if it’s been a hard week I do FSL. Another program that was ok when I could also go on a day during the week was WSFSB with 531 progression on the heavy lifts. Sometimes when I hit a nice round number like 3pl8 bench I’ll do GZCL bodybuilding to increase my rep max on it. It’s just a hobby honestly, if people are serious enough that 5/3/1 isn’t good enough for them then why aren’t they already pinning and working with a coach?
Phrak's Greyskull if you want something that's not too different, any of Natural Hypertrophy's programs if you want to move to 100% hypertrophy training and don't care about the "big 3" at all.
Hypertrophy in template form has been all but optimized by Dante Trudel but you need to understand that progressing lifts IS hypertrophy and the only problem with 531 is that it's only 4 lifts unless you're smart enough to do your "accessories" correctly (once to failure).
I’d rather do neck hangs to failure than try to decipher what that illiterate “explains” in his books. I didn’t think it was possible to overcomplicate something so simple at its core to such a degree.
>y-you should only do one set >i-if you do three sets the first two will be a waste because you are doing more a minute later >somehow your body magically knows that you took a break between the reps and knows to ignore the first two sets >One set of 15 is better than 3 of 5, even if you can do more weight with the sets of 5 >i-it just is ok!
7x5. 10x3. 3x3
6x5. 8x3. 3x2
5x5. 6x3. 3x1
Deload week
This is what I've been doing with bench the last few months the 5s are with light-medium weight, the 3s are with medium-heavy weight. The third workouts are maximal triples doubles and singles. The two volume workouts a week progress 5lbs a week and the starting percentages are basically what smolov jr programming would be for those reps. After deload add 5lbs to everything the next month. Idk how optimal it is since I made it up on my own but I've been able to manage to make it through a few months so far lol. You can add accessories on whatever way you want as long as you manage fatigue. I just set this up to bench 3x a week. I'm only like lower and intermediate like 250 max but spun my wheels forever and didn't want to get on something so low volume like 5/3/1. I tried to set it up more like a sheiko where you can bench high frequency bit realize a full on block periodization like he does would be a waste of time for someone at my max so I tried to utilize lots of time under the bar while also having an intensity day
I'll just stick to stronglifts 5x5 thnx too much of a brainlet to be fricking with figuring out percentages an sheeiiit.
I never went anywhere doing heavy x3 x1 good to know I can lift a certain weight consistently before I want to progress.
The 5x5 target makes things way easier.
Also frick accessories 75% of them are useless shit that'll frick your tendons.
I've been doing nSuns (essentially just stacking the 531 main lifts together into one day). Pretty enjoyable, feels like a good combo of volume and intensity. Not sustainable longterm, but a fun option for a few months
I don’t understand why you would run this. This nsuns shit seems exactly like what would happen if one clueless Redditor tried to “modify” wendler, blind leading the blind style.
>This nsuns shit seems exactly like what would happen if one clueless Redditor tried to “modify” wendler
Anon, nsuns is literally just that. It was just an obscure reddit workout program based off 5/3/1 and sheiko, popularized by fake natties and other redditors.
yes, dipshit
Humans have 600 muscles
The body is one muscle
It's okay for strength, less so for hypertrophy.
Wendler started off saying 5/3/1 then boring but big, no exceptions
Then sold a couple more books and said actually you can do all sorts of things but first set last is the best
Then said actually the 5/3/1 sets are pretty dumb and the meat is the templates
Now only does bodyweight corcuits with a weighted vest
I guess wendler himself needed more
This.
531 started out being sold on simplicity and consistent gains over the long term. Now there's a billion fricking ways to do it, most of which aren't even 5/3/1 anymore.
Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
And maybe push a sled with a weighted vest, who knows because the books didn't go through an editing process.
>Oh and don't forget to add your FSL and joker sets, but only if you're doing a leader template, otherwise you need to do an anchor which includes 50 - 100 chins ups and a max out set, but leave one in the tank and also do 85% of your 1rm.
i'm admittedly an idiot but still i couldn't believe how confusing it was to try and read through these books to decide what the frick i was supposed to do
Remember that 5/3/1 is designed as a cookie cutter program/system to be used by the masses. Wendler never ran 5/3/1 himself, nor does he use it in coaching. You use his templates until you have a better feel for programming to your needs. With that said, the 5/3/1 template is a great starting point and the more principles are good for life.
I'm not surprised this is the type of lifter that dislikes 5/3/1.
531 is a good base program if you understand what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. There's a shitload of different versions of it for a reason. The basic template itself is a good core that you can build upon with additional volume and different weights. If you're just trying to get stronger in general at different exercises and at a manageable pace, then it's good, since you can fit a lot of different shit into a single workout without burning yourself out.
Personally, it helped me break through a few plateaus that I've been stuck on for months.
Is it a good program to run if you're trying to compete? I don't know, maybe not, maybe yes, you'll probably have more success elsewhere.
I've ran programs like sheiko, smolov, pyramid sets, ladder sets and some weird shit I made up myself.
For me - too much volume or low reps on near 1RM intensity burns me out after a few weeks and I stagnate or my body gives up and I start to regress on the weights.
On my own modified version of 531 I have adjusted the amount of volume and intensity so that I don't burn myself out and my body doesn't feel like it's trying to kill itself, so I'd say it's pretty good and pretty enjoyable.
But if you're trying to peak for a competition, go look for something else, 531 is VERY slow and it's built around you just liking to workout.
The entire routine is a joke for this reason.
>b-but it's not a routine, it's a methodology
Exactly. It's a cope.
yes
>more volume
>more intensity
>and / or more frequency
also jim needs an editor, his books are inconsistent and read like shit
You can add as much volume, intensity and frequency to 5/3/1 as you want
It's good to read up on stuff if you're gonna follow strength training too. Intensity inregards to powerlifting stuff is just %of 1rm, it's not used the way HIT people use it. You can have high intensity days that aren't super fatiguing if you aren't training to failure on all your sets. Reading through some of these books are good even if you don't follow the program. I read through some of sheikos book for ideas even though I'm not ready to get on any kind of full on block periodization like he programs
>you can do anything to the program
5/3/1 is fricking moronic for this reason, there is no such thing as "5/3/1" except for the simple wave progression for the top sets which you can bolt on to any other program you wanted anyway and add arbitrary amounts of volume and accessories; are you doing 5/3/1 at that point?
It seems like strength training can be divided into getting stronger by getting better at the lift training it all the time (sheiko) and getting stronger by training everything that goes into doing the movement as a whole through accessory/assistance exercises (westside). Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are generally the two paths past a certain point from what I've seen
This is an extremely boring way to train
I've program hopped several times, rpe type programs, sheiko, etc
I always seem to make my way back to a 5/3/1 variation of some kind
Usually it's the simplest strength template with assorted accessories
Make the majority of my gains with it as well
For whatever that's worth
Anyone that has any real progress on 5/3/1 ends up doing a shit ton of accessories. It's the accessories that make a difference, not a few reps of sub maximal work.
It is just a 4 day brosplit, but with %.
conjugate method > 5/3/1
5/3/1 is the routine people go on just before quitting lifting. People inconsistent in the gym are always like "I'm on 5/3/1" but they've made no progress. It's the stagnation step before total quitting.
I almost became this person. I was basically that npc that I went SS->Greyskull->531, with progressively shittier progress. I probably would have quit had I not decided to ditch 531.
What did you do instead
I did Smolov and smolov jr. It wasn’t long term sustainable though, afterwards moved on to 6x a week bulgarian.
What were your numbers then and what are they now?
I've done smolov jr once. I think the 20lbs in 3 weeks thing is bullshit, but it is excellent for drastically improving your form and work capacity
same I went from SS>531 and my results were awful. I also would have quit i had not found better programming and made progress again.
>5/3/1 is the routine people go on just before quitting lifting.
I'm doing 5/3/1 and it's the best gains I've made so far. Simple and effective.
>leaves westside
>creates hisown system
>loses all his strength
>gets so snapped up he cant use barbells anymore
No thanks
I'm doing 531for beginners, it's very slow but consistent
am I wasting my time and what else should I do
You should do linear progression like SS, Greyskull etc. until you can't add weight from workout to workout. Then do Madcow until you plateau. Then switch to some 531 variation. Just do direct arm work from day one to avoid powershitter look.
>do linear progression like SS, Greyskull etc. until you can't add weight from workout to workout.
so do it for one session? can people seriously beat their 5rm every week? I don't believe you. Anybody making gains on "linear progression" is just too much of a pussy to find his actual 5rm on the first session.
All progress is linear. As long as you took a set to failure your body will adapt to it and you will have a higher max next time. Note that even one more rep with the same weight is a higher max.
>t. beginner
If you'd been lifting more than a year you'd know it doesn't work like this
Or I'm just smarter than you.
If you genuinely think that it's because you're peak dunning-kruger. Once you get advanced enough progress it's no linear and simply training to failure doesn't automatically result in adaptation. You're talking like a complete noob to strength training.
okay post body then
i personally found 531 for beginners really well rounded. i went on to 531 bodybuilding after that, 4 days to match my schedule. don’t get too hung up on the programming if you're starting out. get the lifts in, and if you absolutely know that you're not progressing, then change something small before ditching a whole program. it'll make you burned out on lifting entirely with the amount of conflicting resources there are.
>am i wasting my time
strengthwise? Was as follows for me over the course of 3 months
>start
>Squat 1x71kg
>Bench 1x51kg
>Deadlift 1x81kg
>OHP 1x36kg
>3 months
>Squat 3x91kg
>Bench 3x56kg
>Deadlift 3x106kg
>OHP 3x41kg
my Deadlift could've been way more. I only had 106kg at hand. The progression itself is too slow to start out as a complete beginner. After 3 weeks I had to 20+ reps on my squat and bench amrap sets and 10+ on my bench and OHP ones. That stuff was super fatiguing so the assistance lifts barely went up in weight which are mostly resposnible for size.
So if you want to look good use a different program
If you want to look good then you have to progress past squatting your bodyweight. The assistance lifts arent responsible for size. Progress in any lift is. You did alright but if you want to progress faster learn to raise the weight to where you fail way before 20 reps.
yeah the progression was just not for beginners at all. it was rather weird. my problem is when i use a linear program i just stall way earlier. there is something about doing those dumbass amrap sets where i want to shoot myself before starting them that enables me to not stall. hated it
>you have to progress past squatting your bodyweight
stats were 178cm, 70kg at the time
I don't really care
Submax training can and does work but Wendlers just another bullshit e-huckster for low-T boomers, 5/3/1 as he prescribes it (shit ton of compound volume, then dips AND chins AND abs every day lol lmao) will overtrain you unless you do literal meme weights on the accessory/supplemental whatever he calls it, or eat so much that you get fat like SS
All that really matters for the main compound is the AMRAP top set and maybe 3 sets at his "FSL" weight to follow it, the rest of the compound sets are junk, the 5/3 part is especially dumb
If you need an Excel spreadsheet to work out then you're probably a redditor
>>the 5/3 part is especially dumb
i thought those were just the warmup sets he put into the routine so nobody would skip them
You have to warm up anyway, doing two junk sets at 80% of tm or whatever before the top set is just going to waste energy and cost you reps
If you can't knock out a couple of easy 5s or 3s before the main set, that just shows you need to do them even more. You have no capacity.
>writes up a bare bones HIT program where you warm up and then do a single set with 100% intensity hitting your X rep MAX
>calls it submaximal training
>people try it and it works
>they add volume to it and change it entirely and then build a dyel cult around it
Such a strange series of books.
I'm currently doing 5/3/1 BBB but a bit changed: I do 5/3/1, then 3 sets of the last weight before the main one (second set last I guess), then 5*10 with the other lift (so ohp when benching, rdl when squatting, etc.). Only thing I've added is pull-ups after bench/ohp. It works fine.
Now I'm going to start using my home gym, so I can't do deadlifts and standing ohp. I can also go more often than 4 days, so I was thinking the following ppl split, what do you think:
5/3/1 ssl bench - BBB ohp - incline bench
5/3/1 pull-ups - BBB rows - barbell curls
5/3/1 squat - BBB rdl
5/3/1 ohp - BBB bench - incline bench
5/3/1 rows - BBB pull-ups - barbell curl
5/3/1 rdl - BBB squat
Rest
What is your goal here? 531 is for progressing lifts once per week. You're doing them all twice for no reason and you're adding sets when it's actually about how many reps you can do.
Well I'm doing them once per week with the 5/3/1 scheme, the other day is BBB sets, wendler said somewhere you can do them in different days
BBB had never worked for anyone.
Please elaborate?
I already have but basically adding sets does nil and the program is for progressing lifts 1x per week via one set to failure and you should do it that's what you want to do and thus that is what you should focus on. All variants were written because redditors pay instead of pirate and redditors asked Jim for variants with added volume.
So what's the best volume approach?
Pyramid down after the top set?
Adding sets does nil.
Hmm. I guess I don't fully understand why
Because your body adds muscle in response to you doing a set that was difficult enough for it to deem more muscle necessary. If a set can be repeated then it's not nearly difficult enough and in response to you repeating it all the jody has to do is repair the muscle it has which is already enough to do said series of sets.
>3x12 is moronic
>if you can do it three times then you’re not progressing, don’t even bother
Are you saying you should only ever do 1 set per exercise?
Aside from the warmups, yes.
No. Volume is important.
Volume is only important if you're practicing your form, in other words peaking a lift or working on your balance in a bodyweight movement.
I don't actually agree with Mentzers idea of infrequency. I think a decent frequency is necessary for the sarcoplasmic gains which make you bigger and stronger just like myofibrilar gains and greatly support the progress of your single set to failure thus increasing the myofibrilar gains.
He was complety correct about there being no need to ever replicate a set in hypertrophy training.
Mentzerhomosexuals you need to be 18 to be o this website
>simplicity
Brainlet here, but I’ve never seen a more complicated program than 532. Granted i never read the book, but damn all templates and calcs I find online always have some sort of weird parameters with millions of options.
>yeah but it’s sooo customizable!
When does it stop being 531 then? I need a program that I will be able to recover from, adding stuff is no problem.
He wrote the books because redditors pay for them, not because they're good. What he got was right was that you can progress once per week with two warmups and a set to failure and he wrote up a neat little way to log it and get some variation in the rep ranges culminating in a monthly 1rm update on your PL total.
You should only do it if you specifically want to progress the power lifts and you want to lift at 1x frequency and if this is the case then the base program with a set of dips and chinups to failure once or twice a week is what you need, not the reddit bullshit.
Pretty much, I can only work out Saturday and Sunday so I do a bench and squat day 531BBB, if it’s been a hard week I do FSL. Another program that was ok when I could also go on a day during the week was WSFSB with 531 progression on the heavy lifts. Sometimes when I hit a nice round number like 3pl8 bench I’ll do GZCL bodybuilding to increase my rep max on it. It’s just a hobby honestly, if people are serious enough that 5/3/1 isn’t good enough for them then why aren’t they already pinning and working with a coach?
It's not a routine, it's a set of principles that revolve around the training max.
I'm doing 5/3/1 but just want to focus on hypertrophy now. What routine should I do instead?
Phrak's Greyskull if you want something that's not too different, any of Natural Hypertrophy's programs if you want to move to 100% hypertrophy training and don't care about the "big 3" at all.
Hypertrophy in template form has been all but optimized by Dante Trudel but you need to understand that progressing lifts IS hypertrophy and the only problem with 531 is that it's only 4 lifts unless you're smart enough to do your "accessories" correctly (once to failure).
Unironically a brosplit
5/3/1 was just a rehash of BFS. Which is probably what Jim did in high school and prior to Westside.
I’d rather do neck hangs to failure than try to decipher what that illiterate “explains” in his books. I didn’t think it was possible to overcomplicate something so simple at its core to such a degree.
Juggernaut is basically this with a college degree.
>y-you should only do one set
>i-if you do three sets the first two will be a waste because you are doing more a minute later
>somehow your body magically knows that you took a break between the reps and knows to ignore the first two sets
>One set of 15 is better than 3 of 5, even if you can do more weight with the sets of 5
>i-it just is ok!
>low volume
>low intensity (85-90% of real max lol)
Worst of all:
>low frequency
Do candito 6 week instead. It’s 5/3/1 but actually challenging.
wim jendler promotes a lot of junk volume to satisfy the gym addicts
yeah same with PPL
Is PPL even that much volume? You’re still hitting each group twice a week. You can finish a days workout in like 30-45 mins
7x5. 10x3. 3x3
6x5. 8x3. 3x2
5x5. 6x3. 3x1
Deload week
This is what I've been doing with bench the last few months the 5s are with light-medium weight, the 3s are with medium-heavy weight. The third workouts are maximal triples doubles and singles. The two volume workouts a week progress 5lbs a week and the starting percentages are basically what smolov jr programming would be for those reps. After deload add 5lbs to everything the next month. Idk how optimal it is since I made it up on my own but I've been able to manage to make it through a few months so far lol. You can add accessories on whatever way you want as long as you manage fatigue. I just set this up to bench 3x a week. I'm only like lower and intermediate like 250 max but spun my wheels forever and didn't want to get on something so low volume like 5/3/1. I tried to set it up more like a sheiko where you can bench high frequency bit realize a full on block periodization like he does would be a waste of time for someone at my max so I tried to utilize lots of time under the bar while also having an intensity day
I home gym so it's no big deal to do that kind of work, I could see it being a problem in a busy gym
I'll just stick to stronglifts 5x5 thnx too much of a brainlet to be fricking with figuring out percentages an sheeiiit.
I never went anywhere doing heavy x3 x1 good to know I can lift a certain weight consistently before I want to progress.
The 5x5 target makes things way easier.
Also frick accessories 75% of them are useless shit that'll frick your tendons.
Honestly I think most people would be better off doing this + play a sport than by doing whatever they do now.
531 is trash, there are a million other intermediate strength programs and bro splits that are better than this garbage
I've been doing nSuns (essentially just stacking the 531 main lifts together into one day). Pretty enjoyable, feels like a good combo of volume and intensity. Not sustainable longterm, but a fun option for a few months
Never understood the reasoning for nsuns/spinal tap. Seems like a complete meme
I don’t understand why you would run this. This nsuns shit seems exactly like what would happen if one clueless Redditor tried to “modify” wendler, blind leading the blind style.
>This nsuns shit seems exactly like what would happen if one clueless Redditor tried to “modify” wendler
Anon, nsuns is literally just that. It was just an obscure reddit workout program based off 5/3/1 and sheiko, popularized by fake natties and other redditors.
5/3/1 FOREVER
5 SCOOPS
3 NUTS
1 SHAFT
Do beyond 5/3/1 and 13 week BBB challenge if your gonna bother