why do you guys hate this lift so much?

i get that its dangerous if you go in with an ego and start with way too much weight, but ive found it solved my delt imbalance in a way facepulls or rear delt flies never could.
if youre doing all these heavy compounds with your front delts [overhead press, bench press, weighted pushups, push press, etc] are you really gonna fix the imbalance with cables and 15 pound dumbbells?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I never knew it was dangerous. Maybe because people dont do them so they are weak in that area?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yeah its a chicken vs egg problem
      is it a dangerous lift, or do u just have weak rear delts and youre lifting weights too heavy for you? i say latter

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Probably, it's what happened with me and overhead tricep extensions. I used to feel pain in my elbows and shoulder joints but all I had to do was lower the weight and progress from there. Now I love overhead extensions.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          yeah i love those too
          what kinda grip do u use? a barbell? a dumbbell holding the top part? dumbell holding the handle? or are u a lucky cunt with access to a tricep bar?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nothing fancy just dumbbells

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because people are dumb
    >use a ton of weight in a weak position they've never trained before
    >rotator cuff explodes
    >REEEEE HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN TO MEEE
    Pretty much everyone should start with 20-30kg on this lift and work their way up slowly while also doing some rotator cuff work on the side. Overall it's probably better than OHP for hypertrophy as you get more side/rear delts, more upper back, and less systemic fatigue due to the lighter loads. You do get less upper chest though but OHP is pretty shit for upper chest anyway so it's not a big deal.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      yea i kinda feel the same way
      ohp doesnt really give much that bench wont either. a little bit of side delt and trap but rly not much

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        OHP is pretty much the "base" vertical press in that it does a lot of things OK but doesn't do anything especially well
        >Want to target your side/rear delts and upper back more? Do BTNP
        >Want to target your anterior delts and upper chest more while overloading with more weight? Do seated anterior delt press
        >Want to shove as much weight as possible overhead? Do push press or jerks
        >Want to get some free oblique work while fixing imbalances? Do one arm db OHP

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          why is this board so fucking obsessed with it then? i literally see ppl saying they dont bench cuz they ohp instead

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Because despite the above reasons OHP is an exceptional way to display your strength
            >easy to standardize
            >fairly low injury risk especially when maxing out
            >fairly low technical rating (you can put more weight overhead on push press/jerks but those are much more technical)
            >is very aesthetic and primal
            I actually don't do flat bench personally but that's because I do 30 and 45 degree incline bench + deep ring dips/pushups which altogether are more than enough for my chest.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              i really dont agree with this just because normies never really do standing barbell ohp. everybody benches, bench is like the decider of whos strong. normies always ask how much u bench, more experienced lifters sometimes ask how much u deadlift, but ive never in my life been asked how much i ohp

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Because IST is contrarian + OHP has more ROM and looks cooler/more primal (shoving an object over your head vs lying down and lowering an object to your chest before pushing it back up). And I would argue that the chance of someone being truly strong as fuck is a bit higher if they say they have a big OHP vs saying they have a big bench simply because there's fewer ways to cheat OHP unlike bench (giga exorcist arch, bouncing the bar off your chest, etc).

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >fairly low technical rating
              Disagree, it took me over a month to dial in my OHP form after a very long time away from lifting. Also requires decent shoulder mobility to do it efficiently.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                In comparison to push press and jerks it is certainly much lower, and I personally found it much easier to learn than bench/squat/deadlift. Shoulder mobility wouldn't be a technical issue, it's a mobility issue (and IMO if you can't get into an overhead position, there is a big problem that needs fixing).

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I forgot to add, but compared to benching. The easiest one is deadlifting. Squatting with solid and consistent form is the hardest for me.
                Deadlift>Bench>OHP>Squats in terms of ease of groove for me.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                For me it was OHP>Squats=Bench>Deadlift (To be fair I never ended up deadlifting much because I only feel my glutes and lower back even with pristine technique so I'd rather do something else that doesn't fatigue me anywhere near as much)

                And no I have great shoulder mobility. It's not hard to OHP with shit form, over-extending into a standing incline bench. It's hard to really optimize how you press. Grip width, rack position, upper torso position, rigidity in rest of body, driving and then getting under the bar as it clears your forehead etc.

                While it is true that it's easy to turn OHP into a standing incline bench and that you can add quite a bit of weight to your press purely by optimizing the movement, I don't think you can add as much as compared to bench simply because you can't decrease the ROM on OHP by any appreciable amount. You can only increase the efficiency of your press and in the case of turning it into a standing incline bench you can improve your leverages slightly. On bench you can literally cut your ROM in half (or at least close to it) by going from a medium/narrow grip with a minimal arch to a wide grip with a huge arch. Someone benching 3 plates with a medium/narrow grip and with a minimal arch is not at all the same as someone benching 3 plates with a wide grip and a huge arch; the former is going to have a much larger upper body in pretty much all cases. Meanwhile two individuals OHPing similar numbers will be fairly comparable due to the above factors unless they have a huge discrepancy in limb lengths.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah in that sense you are right. I always go for full maximum ROM, but with the most "efficient" bar path/mechanics. I squat high bar because it feels the most natural and secure to me, but have issues with knee caving and folding over anytime it gets too heavy.

                I exclusively do close grip benching (shoulder width) now, slight arch to set my shoulders/back and enable some leg drive but with a really great ROM. Going wider allows more weight but absolutely wrecks recovery for me on concurrent sessions in the same week, the connective tissue around my upper pecs towards the delts need 4+ days of recovery before I can bench heavy wide again without getting pain in that area. None of that when I go close grip, I also psychologically feel safer about my shoulders despite never having any big issues when tucking vs flaring.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, I think bench would be a better test of strength if everyone was forced to use max ROM, however this isn't the case so OHP ends up winning by virtue of being uncheatable in that regard. I also go for max ROM on pretty much everything (Head below elbows on ring dips, ATG on high bar squats, back below parallel on deficit RDLs, bar to traps on BTNP with a narrow grip, etc). I don't use a close grip on my incline presses though but that's solely because my elbows can't recover from all the pressing and tricep volume I do otherwise.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >lift no one trains is the best test of strength
                you can 100% cheat like a motherfucker on ohp btw lol

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >leg drive
                Push press is not a strict OHP
                >dipping the bar
                Not a strict OHP
                >standing incline press
                Olympic press is not a strict OHP

                None of these reduce ROM significantly anyway, the first uses the legs to help, second uses the stretch reflex, the third gives you better leverages. On bench you can significantly reduce the range of motion via arch + wide grip and it will still be called a bench press.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >dipping the bar
                Other poster you replied to, but I do this. Pause between each rep, then pull/bounce into stretch reflex and drive. Feels more consistent and controlled than touch and go, and less overly stringent than pausing into a dead stop each rep.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                and do u unironically think the people on here bragging about their ohp are doing it strict? ur a fucking dumbass if so and i would like to sell u some turkesterone

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                True but the above ways you can cheat (unless you're literally doing a jerk lmao) OHP won't add as much as a giga arch and a wide grip will on bench. Plus I highly doubt most people are using leg drive, though I can buy some people dipping the bar and a small handful doing a standing incline bench.

                >dipping the bar
                Other poster you replied to, but I do this. Pause between each rep, then pull/bounce into stretch reflex and drive. Feels more consistent and controlled than touch and go, and less overly stringent than pausing into a dead stop each rep.

                Dipping the bar isn't necessarily bad and you don't get that much more weight out of it, if that feels good then keep doing it. For me personally I always use a slow eccentric, pause at the bottom with the bar contacting the upper chest (though I try to keep tension in the delts by not letting it rest on the structure) before exploding back up.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >True but the above ways you can cheat (unless you're literally doing a jerk lmao) OHP won't add as much as a giga arch and a wide grip will on bench.
                only because the amount of weight u can lift on ohp is lower in general... the ratio is still about the same

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Even when accounting for ratios it still doesn't add as much, dipping only adds a small amount of weight, leg drive does add a ton but I highly doubt there are more than like 3 people here who claim their push press is their OHP. Standing incline adds quite a bit but I don't think it adds more than giga arch + wide grip on bench press would proportion-wise simply because it doesn't significantly reduce the range of motion, and again there probably aren't a ton of people here who are doing this (at least to the extent where it would actually add a ton of weight to your OHP; a small bit of layback is not the same as the dudes who bend back so far that it's now a standing FLAT bench press)

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >but I highly doubt there are more than like 3 people here who claim their push press is their OHP
                Lol the vast majority of people do this unconsciously.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I don't even know how this is possible, the moment I unlock my knees I can instantly tell; this isn't like rounding the back on deadlifts where people with shit proprioception may not notice that it's happening, your knees unlocking is extremely obvious and noticable (plus to use leg drive you have to move down a bit, which is also extremely obvious since during a strict press your body shouldn't descend at all)

                You're fighting a useless battle anon. People have for some reason got it in their heads that bench press is an ego lift and OHP is the only indicator of strength because normies don't do OHP.

                More that the way a lot of people perform it turns it into an ego lift. A medium/close grip bench press with a minimal arch is a great exercise; a super wide grip bench with an enormous arch is an abomination that only serves to show how much weight you can move through a 2" range of motion. If everybody performed the former lift, it would be a better test of upper-body strength than OHP since you can move more weight through a significant ROM while involving more muscle mass. Of course, in the real world people when optimizing their bench will steadily widen their grip and increase their arch to put more pounds on the bar, which means you end up having two dudes benching the same weight with similar proportions but one is significantly less muscular because he's doing the lift through a tiny range of motion. The same thing doesn't happen (or at least, is very rare) with OHP.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                nah, its just easy for you to brag about your strength if you base it entirely off a lift nobody outside of nerds on this board trains seriously
                >the average gym-goer has never done barbell overhead press in his entire life
                >strongmen, powerlifters, crossfitters, olympic lifters will train it as an accessory to their log press, clean and jerk, bench, push press, etc, but definitely not as a main movement
                >most bodybuilders opt for dumbbells or a shoulder press machine and the few that do barbell OHP all do it sitting
                you keep babbling about ego but the only reason you feel so strongly about this is ur ego is hurt by the fact that your bench is unimpressive and weak. rather than accept that youd rather move goalposts and say literally everyone else is wrong.

                You're fighting a useless battle anon. People have for some reason got it in their heads that bench press is an ego lift and OHP is the only indicator of strength because normies don't do OHP.

                true ngl

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're fighting a useless battle anon. People have for some reason got it in their heads that bench press is an ego lift and OHP is the only indicator of strength because normies don't do OHP.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >To be fair I never ended up deadlifting much because I only feel my glutes and lower back
                That is crazy, I get mad DOMS in my hamstrings from deadlifting, especially romanian deadlifts. Really recommend those if you aren't doing them or haven't tried it. Meanwhile squats make my glutes sore.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I do deficit RDLs (bar to toes with a wider grip) with my back going well below parallel, 3 sets of this and nordic curls gives me hamstring DOMS for 3-4 days. I think this is why I never got hamstring soreness from deadlifts, deadlifts just don't stretch the hamstring enough for me to feel anything.

              • 3 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                And no I have great shoulder mobility. It's not hard to OHP with shit form, over-extending into a standing incline bench. It's hard to really optimize how you press. Grip width, rack position, upper torso position, rigidity in rest of body, driving and then getting under the bar as it clears your forehead etc.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like doing isolation bicep curls to failure for 3 or 4 sets before standing up and doing 3 sets of curls followed by one hand OHPs

    really makes the shoulders pop

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Behind the head sitting ohp sounds lethal, imma try it

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'm at 1pl8 and growing for OHP but not behind the back.
    I want to do behind the back OHP because I feel my sholders more, but I'll cut that bitch down by a lot.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Depends on your shoulder.
    I liked behind the back OHP but I kept getting issues with my left shoulder because it's ligaments where always kinda weak when compared to my other shoulder.
    Switching to a close grip front OHP or DB OHP eliminated most issues entirely so for me at least behind the back OHP is simply not an option.

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