I don't think it really matters in natties a whole lot past the initial stages. It's mostly a yes/no growth not some sliding scale of returns on volume. It's easier to find the minimum effective volume to grow when you've distilled everything into it's separate elements and can see them advance or stagnate independent of each other and just add sets like that. It's not nessisary it's not practical it's not good use of your time but I'll be damned if it doesn't work for even most mouth breathing moron or weakling struggling to bench the bar.
it matters A LOT. its actually one of the things that matters the absolute most and one of the only things that make any difference at all. you will absolutely never EVER bench 4pl8 on a brosplit. it will legitimately never happen. but you can bench 4pl8 as a natural if you bench 3-4x a week.
and yes strength = size. a guy who benches 4pl8 will have absurdly big chest compared to some sub 2pl8 dyel. its just a fact there is no way around it. its actually the complete opposite, in the initial stages it doesnt matter how you train because everything will give you progressive overload but past initial stage it is very important what you do or you will just spin your wheels indefinitely.
>the numbahs
It don't matter you're either happy with what you see in mirror or happy with what you see on the bar. I care more about the mirror but it is what it is.
>junk volume
volume is volume
junk volume is a term used by powerfats who can only do 5 egolift reps a week because just doing 1 more will snap their shit irreparably
junk volume does not exist for normal people following a healthy routine
>volume is volume
far from it. sets with more than a few reps left in the tank, which is what is called junk volume, are much less effective and you're just wasting time. instead of doing 10x10 with 20RM, it's much better to do 5x10 with a higher weight and another 5x10 during the next workout that week, or at least another exercise with an adjusted weight
Unironically yes.
You must allow at least 72 hours recovery to ensure max growth before working the same muscles again, otherwise your just working against yourself. PPL is the only way to properly allow for this.
whats your reasoning for not going the obvious route of back+biceps and pecs+triceps?
how can you get a good set of bench in when you blasted your triceps the day before?
>You can't prove this isn't true
read up a bit on human muscle physiology or just muscle physiology and you will know brosplits are straight up inferior
science based training has the same amount of ammo as bro-split training, and the bro-split training wastes most of them
bro-split training has you not shoot anything for a whole week too
>whats your reasoning for not going the obvious route of back+biceps and pecs+triceps?
because he doesn't want to detrain before he gets back to training his biceps/triceps again
this is the problem with brosplits, they basically require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions
20 sets a week is 20 sets a week
no it isn't
Bro split training is training your muscle once a week. How exactly are you gonna get more volume doing that? Unless brosplit is just a buzzword to use like you are doing with science based which apparently just means low volume/frequency.
>Bro split training is training your muscle once a week
for the mostt part yes, which is why it is shit >How exactly are you gonna get more volume doing that?
you could do 5 sets or 30 sets in the same day and experience the same growth, this explains why you see moronic roiders do like 20 fricking sets in one session for a muscle and think they're doing very high volume, in reality they're only doing like 5 productive sets and the rest is excess damage they manage to recover fine from because they have all that gear doing that for them
Bro split is high volume low frequency. Lots of exercises on the same day but lots of time between days. Good for hypertrophy but shit else wise.
bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy they're just the most braindead way of doing a ton of hard work while getting enough time to recover
but the problem is that the goal is not to work hard and then recover, our goal is to work hard, recover and then grow, brosplits are fricking shit for that unless you are a hyper responder who just doesn't lose any muscle from excess per-session volumes and muscle disuse between sessions
>require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions >muscle disuse between sessions
Most moronic thing I've ever heard. It takes far longer than a week for atrophy to begin.
you don't understand muscle physiology
muscle fibers have no mechanism for maintaining their size with disuse > It takes far longer than a week for atrophy to begin.
no it doesn't
the only few studies leading to such conclusions are incredibly flawed and way too underpowered to detect muscle size loss at a fiber level, meanwhile we have plenty of studies showing that individual muscle fibers start shrinking after just 2 days of disuse not only based on CSA chances but also myofibrillar protein synthesis rates
>bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy
what is good for hypertrophy?
stimulating muscle fibers while avoiding detraining or overtraining
Unironically yes.
You must allow at least 72 hours recovery to ensure max growth before working the same muscles again, otherwise your just working against yourself. PPL is the only way to properly allow for this.
there's no hard number you could train a muscle every day if and make gains just can't train it that hard
https://i.imgur.com/zuPrmbI.jpg
>Bro split is high volume low frequency
NGL I made my permagains in high school on something like PxPxLxx
Annihilate the muscles, feel soreness in every fiber, do it again a week later
yeah that works until you are intermediate status and the amount of growth you can stimulate in just one session is not enough to compensate for the atrophy experienced in the week
Maybe my understanding of a bro split is different than other anons, but I assumed it was a 3-5 day split that hit certain groups twice a week. Working on an upper lower split right now
a 3 day a week PPL is basically a brosplit with no arm day, each muscle group getting trained once a week
>junk volume
volume is volume
junk volume is a term used by powerfats who can only do 5 egolift reps a week because just doing 1 more will snap their shit irreparably
junk volume does not exist for normal people following a healthy routine
it's not that simple and we know it can't be because we know how muscles work
muscles don't count the number of reps or sets you do, why would volume done in one session be just as effective as volume spread out throughout the week?
if junk volume does not exist why is there a myofibrillar protein synthesis volume plateau?
So how's a ULULULx with alternating high load / dynamic load weeks look? That's what I'm working on now.
1 month ago
Anonymous
that schedule would obviously be fine as long as you're progressing
>using science to prove science
Thanks for the circular argument.
The big dudes I've seen reject science and use brosplits, so maybe science is wrong when it comes to building muscle.
>circular argument
ok answer this then
why should muscle fibers not shrink with disuse other than "well uh these jacked dudes on and are jacked so..."
from a completely autistic logical evolutionary perspective what would the reason be for such a thing? the specimen benefits from having only the muscle fibers it recruits and loads to maintain or grow in size for nutrient preservation purposes >The big dudes I've seen reject science and use brosplits
do you know how much indirect work they get in their weekly split?
are they doing chest, shoulders and arms on seperate days? that would provide the triceps with a 3x a week frequency
are they doing close grip bench or dips on arms day? that would mean their pecs are getting 2x a week frequency
are they training back and biceps on seperate days? that would provide the biceps with a 2x a week frequency
you also might not know exactly what they do throughout the year, chances are they aren't following the same training split all of the time
there's also the drug and hyper responder problem, just because someone trains a specific way with great results doesn't mean they wouldn't make better progress training some other way while taking less stuff or wasting far less time
these are just a few of the problems with looking at how some jacked people train and making erroneous conclusions on how you should train
I'm not saying no one can make gains on brosplits, it just depends greatly on how you structure things and how well you respond to training >maybe science is wrong when it comes to building muscle
ironically the bulk of the literature shows that frequency doesn't matter much, however we know this cannot be true because muscle does not grow for the entire week no matter how hard it's trained it just doesn't
1 month ago
Anonymous
>the literature says blah blah blah >still begging the question
Bro experience > science. Who cares why it works? Maybe the art of muscle growth isn't something you can study scientifically effectively.
>the only few studies leading to such conclusions are incredibly flawed and way too underpowered to detect muscle size loss at a fiber level, meanwhile we have plenty of studies showing that individual muscle fibers start shrinking after just 2 days of disuse not only based on CSA chances but also myofibrillar protein synthesis rates
No, YOU do not understand muscle physiology. Any decrease in size in the days after a workout can be attributed to the pump fading. The best metric to use is strength, and that has been shown to maintain itself for several weeks after a workout.
One example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23529287/
From my own firsthand experience, I have taken two weeks off from the gym and set a PR when I got back, so I know it isn't true.
>there's no hard number you could train a muscle every day if and make gains just can't train it that hard
Okay, now I know you simply have no experience. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say you've been training for <1 year. Have you ever tried full body every day? If you did, you would know that it is completely ineffective beyond novice level.
>using science to prove science
Thanks for the circular argument.
The big dudes I've seen reject science and use brosplits, so maybe science is wrong when it comes to building muscle.
you clearly don't understand muscle physiology. >brosplits require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions
kek >bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy
they are. any advantages higher frequency has is only matter short term, and the advantages of a lower frequency is more important long term. rate of gains may be slightly higher with high frequency, but training has hugely diminishing returns over time. so over a couple of years there are either no differences, or an advantage to low frequency due to less chance of overuse injuries or reduced gains from overtraining/underrecovering. almost all studies are a couple of months long at best...
Bro split training is training your muscle once a week. How exactly are you gonna get more volume doing that? Unless brosplit is just a buzzword to use like you are doing with science based which apparently just means low volume/frequency.
Maybe my understanding of a bro split is different than other anons, but I assumed it was a 3-5 day split that hit certain groups twice a week. Working on an upper lower split right now
It's mostly how they're mathed out. Science routines usually focus on compounds. Which means they're counting bench as like 1 set for chest and 0.5ish for tricepts so for like every 2 bench sets one set of tricept extensions.
In a brosplits you'd just do a chest isolation and a tricept isolation and not approximate carryover. Which works it's just not remotely time effecient but it's great if you use machines or are otherwise scared or too weak willed to get the majority of your volume through compounds. You can apply the same concepts to any split though.
>Bench press on Monday (Chest) >OHP on Wednesday (Shoulders) >Dips on Friday (Arms) >Bro, that's only once a week per muscle group
People think that brospit is a dumb program because of people like you.
I am doing 8-12 working sets per muscle group per week. I tried twice that and havent noticed better gains. I keep doing less and there is nothing you can do about it.
Is push(inc squats), pull (inc Deads) + one other full body day of the actual muscle you want to grow (shoulders, bi's, tris, chest, lats) a decent idea for a natty?
The point is to maintain what is already too big (legs) 1x per week and grow whats lagging by hitting 2x per week.
Currently on a cut and but making very good psuedo-noobie gains (built very good base in late-teens/early twenties).
which kind of routine should i follow if i want something braindead that doesn't require me autistically choosing specific lifts every day like this hyper optimized ppl shit
i just want to lift and do cardio every day
Do mine >3x10 chest exercise, mostly bench >3x10 leg exercise, mostly leg press >3x10 back exercise, mostly lat pulldown >Add whatever accessory isolation according to your free time, mostly arms and shoulder >3xWeek
my ChatGPT routine because I can't be consistent about PPL: >Mon: Chest/tris >Tues: Back/bis >Wed: Swimming 30 mins >Thu: Shoulders/Tris (I will throw in a few chest sets here too) >Fri: Legs >Weekends: off
Right now I'm doing ULULXXX but anons said that would turn me into a T-Rex. Should I do pushups on Friday? Friday and Saturday? I can only go to the gym four days a week.
(U is bench, curl and ohp L is squat, row and deadlift)
brosplit is actually scientifically proven to work, i.e. 10-20 weekly sets per bodypart (it made no difference for muscle growth how many times per week), sets of more than 5 reps but never going nowhere near 35+reps muscle endurance teritory, less than 6 sets per exercise, so each sets is within 3 reps to failure, without junk volume. all of this is pretty much ideal for hypertrophy.
multiple exercises make it a lot better than e.g. german volume training, where the first sets are miles from failure. not as optimal as distributing the volume per muscle group into multiple workouts, but makes almost no difference for hypertrophy in practice. they actually checked the effect of different training frequencies on hypertrophy several times, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36228016/ and there was barely any difference shown in each one. there are some studies showing that more frequent training is significantly superior for strength, though, which isn't suprising,
you're right it could be effective, but DAMN are you needlessly wasting literal years of your life for a myriad of unnecessarily light sets. just be normal and do 8-9 sets close to failure instead of 20 of this bullshit.
Big 4 split is where its at >squat + rdl + vertical pulls + bis >bench + ohp + horizontal pull + tris >dl + front squat + vertical pull + bis >ohp + more bench + horizontal pull + Tris
Four days a week is the best balance for me between my job and running and still resting. I do upper/lower with one day focusing on chest/shoulders/quads/hams. Horizontal pulls are on upper days, vertical pulls on lower days. First lift is 5/3/1, every other lift is 3x10. >bench, db bench, one handed seated cable rows, db lat raises, face pulls >front squat, back squat, lat pulldown chin grip, barbell back extension, pullups at home >ohp, db ohp seated, one handed db rows, db incline, chest supported row machine >rdl, barbell back extension, lat pulldown regular grip, back squat, chinups at home
If I had a home gym I would be more open to a 5 or 6 day PPL split or something that would let me work in oly lifts too since I like them, but that's not reasonable right now.
After I couldn't cram everything I wanted to into three full body days without 3 hours straight of frazzling my CNS I now do some weird moron 4 day a week split, seems to work. Most of this is 3*10 (more sets on biceps)
Then a day off, then repeat, then two days off and it's the next week. I might sneak in once or twice a week extra for arms, delts, calves, recovery/stretching etc. Calves, ab/adductor, neck etc are sprinkled in throughout the week.
Four days a week is the best balance for me between my job and running and still resting. I do upper/lower with one day focusing on chest/shoulders/quads/hams. Horizontal pulls are on upper days, vertical pulls on lower days. First lift is 5/3/1, every other lift is 3x10. >bench, db bench, one handed seated cable rows, db lat raises, face pulls >front squat, back squat, lat pulldown chin grip, barbell back extension, pullups at home >ohp, db ohp seated, one handed db rows, db incline, chest supported row machine >rdl, barbell back extension, lat pulldown regular grip, back squat, chinups at home
If I had a home gym I would be more open to a 5 or 6 day PPL split or something that would let me work in oly lifts too since I like them, but that's not reasonable right now.
So I'm working on a block periodized program. First block is full body strength base training with cardio, second block is hypertrophy and power, and third block is maximum output.
First block: >full body 3x weekly with sprint days 2x weekly >almost strictly antagonist supersets and tri sets >rotating set scheme between strength (6x4), hypertrophy (3x12), and endurance (1x24 / AMRAP) for OHP, bench, and squat / DL >main leg alternating between DL / squat; support leg is mainly leg press and leg curl >deload every 6 weeks with 1RM retest day
Second block >UL split 6x weekly >rotation of isolations and compounds to hit muscles differently >alternating regular / power weeks >deload every 4th week
>train UL >have to spend 2 hours in the gym, recovery sucks
Neither of those things are true. I am
Four days a week is the best balance for me between my job and running and still resting. I do upper/lower with one day focusing on chest/shoulders/quads/hams. Horizontal pulls are on upper days, vertical pulls on lower days. First lift is 5/3/1, every other lift is 3x10. >bench, db bench, one handed seated cable rows, db lat raises, face pulls >front squat, back squat, lat pulldown chin grip, barbell back extension, pullups at home >ohp, db ohp seated, one handed db rows, db incline, chest supported row machine >rdl, barbell back extension, lat pulldown regular grip, back squat, chinups at home
If I had a home gym I would be more open to a 5 or 6 day PPL split or something that would let me work in oly lifts too since I like them, but that's not reasonable right now.
and spend an hour per workout, and I think I rest more than average. Recovery is fine, and I feel it targets arms plenty. I had an injuiry recently and can't do dips, but they would replace the db incline bench otherwise. Curl and tricep extension isolations are gay.
That's because science based training and nutrition is stressful and neurotic. It should be done every once in a while as way to get organized.
"Bro-split" is a way of life that integratestraining, nutrition and rest into your routine and helps poeople be happy and not overthink or waste energy by constantly thinking boaut macros or the extra miligrams you weigth or can lift.
20 sets a week is 20 sets a week
Except 20 sets on a single day is mostly junk volume (unless you're juicing)
I don't think it really matters in natties a whole lot past the initial stages. It's mostly a yes/no growth not some sliding scale of returns on volume. It's easier to find the minimum effective volume to grow when you've distilled everything into it's separate elements and can see them advance or stagnate independent of each other and just add sets like that. It's not nessisary it's not practical it's not good use of your time but I'll be damned if it doesn't work for even most mouth breathing moron or weakling struggling to bench the bar.
it matters A LOT. its actually one of the things that matters the absolute most and one of the only things that make any difference at all. you will absolutely never EVER bench 4pl8 on a brosplit. it will legitimately never happen. but you can bench 4pl8 as a natural if you bench 3-4x a week.
and yes strength = size. a guy who benches 4pl8 will have absurdly big chest compared to some sub 2pl8 dyel. its just a fact there is no way around it. its actually the complete opposite, in the initial stages it doesnt matter how you train because everything will give you progressive overload but past initial stage it is very important what you do or you will just spin your wheels indefinitely.
>the numbahs
It don't matter you're either happy with what you see in mirror or happy with what you see on the bar. I care more about the mirror but it is what it is.
>junk volume
volume is volume
junk volume is a term used by powerfats who can only do 5 egolift reps a week because just doing 1 more will snap their shit irreparably
junk volume does not exist for normal people following a healthy routine
>volume is volume
far from it. sets with more than a few reps left in the tank, which is what is called junk volume, are much less effective and you're just wasting time. instead of doing 10x10 with 20RM, it's much better to do 5x10 with a higher weight and another 5x10 during the next workout that week, or at least another exercise with an adjusted weight
>5Day Bro-Split+1 Squat/Bench/Deadlift
Day
that can't be fricking right dude
I'm 40 and when I went from 9 sets (lmao SS) to something like 20 I actually started looking like I lifted weights.
le epic capshit marvel meme xD
here's some reddit gold bro
What about 32 sets a day?
fullbody goated anyway
Upper body lower body split.
post body
is PPL a science split?
They claim it but it existed before "science" lifters.
Unironically yes.
You must allow at least 72 hours recovery to ensure max growth before working the same muscles again, otherwise your just working against yourself. PPL is the only way to properly allow for this.
you're saying that as if it's a good thing. I don't want my split to be labeled as a science split that's cringe i wanna be a bro
>You must allow at least 72 hours recovery to ensure max growth
I only allow my muscles 69 hours of recovery time because it's a funnier number
triceps+back
biceps+pecs
legs+abs
shoulders
my old 9 months routine, never failed me
whats your reasoning for not going the obvious route of back+biceps and pecs+triceps?
how can you get a good set of bench in when you blasted your triceps the day before?
i don't like to train 2 muscles that are interconnected at the same day, makes me tired and lift less
>You can't prove this isn't true
read up a bit on human muscle physiology or just muscle physiology and you will know brosplits are straight up inferior
science based training has the same amount of ammo as bro-split training, and the bro-split training wastes most of them
bro-split training has you not shoot anything for a whole week too
>whats your reasoning for not going the obvious route of back+biceps and pecs+triceps?
because he doesn't want to detrain before he gets back to training his biceps/triceps again
this is the problem with brosplits, they basically require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions
no it isn't
>Bro split training is training your muscle once a week
for the mostt part yes, which is why it is shit
>How exactly are you gonna get more volume doing that?
you could do 5 sets or 30 sets in the same day and experience the same growth, this explains why you see moronic roiders do like 20 fricking sets in one session for a muscle and think they're doing very high volume, in reality they're only doing like 5 productive sets and the rest is excess damage they manage to recover fine from because they have all that gear doing that for them
bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy they're just the most braindead way of doing a ton of hard work while getting enough time to recover
but the problem is that the goal is not to work hard and then recover, our goal is to work hard, recover and then grow, brosplits are fricking shit for that unless you are a hyper responder who just doesn't lose any muscle from excess per-session volumes and muscle disuse between sessions
>require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions
>muscle disuse between sessions
Most moronic thing I've ever heard. It takes far longer than a week for atrophy to begin.
you don't understand muscle physiology
muscle fibers have no mechanism for maintaining their size with disuse
> It takes far longer than a week for atrophy to begin.
no it doesn't
the only few studies leading to such conclusions are incredibly flawed and way too underpowered to detect muscle size loss at a fiber level, meanwhile we have plenty of studies showing that individual muscle fibers start shrinking after just 2 days of disuse not only based on CSA chances but also myofibrillar protein synthesis rates
stimulating muscle fibers while avoiding detraining or overtraining
there's no hard number you could train a muscle every day if and make gains just can't train it that hard
yeah that works until you are intermediate status and the amount of growth you can stimulate in just one session is not enough to compensate for the atrophy experienced in the week
a 3 day a week PPL is basically a brosplit with no arm day, each muscle group getting trained once a week
it's not that simple and we know it can't be because we know how muscles work
muscles don't count the number of reps or sets you do, why would volume done in one session be just as effective as volume spread out throughout the week?
if junk volume does not exist why is there a myofibrillar protein synthesis volume plateau?
So how's a ULULULx with alternating high load / dynamic load weeks look? That's what I'm working on now.
that schedule would obviously be fine as long as you're progressing
>circular argument
ok answer this then
why should muscle fibers not shrink with disuse other than "well uh these jacked dudes on and are jacked so..."
from a completely autistic logical evolutionary perspective what would the reason be for such a thing? the specimen benefits from having only the muscle fibers it recruits and loads to maintain or grow in size for nutrient preservation purposes
>The big dudes I've seen reject science and use brosplits
do you know how much indirect work they get in their weekly split?
are they doing chest, shoulders and arms on seperate days? that would provide the triceps with a 3x a week frequency
are they doing close grip bench or dips on arms day? that would mean their pecs are getting 2x a week frequency
are they training back and biceps on seperate days? that would provide the biceps with a 2x a week frequency
you also might not know exactly what they do throughout the year, chances are they aren't following the same training split all of the time
there's also the drug and hyper responder problem, just because someone trains a specific way with great results doesn't mean they wouldn't make better progress training some other way while taking less stuff or wasting far less time
these are just a few of the problems with looking at how some jacked people train and making erroneous conclusions on how you should train
I'm not saying no one can make gains on brosplits, it just depends greatly on how you structure things and how well you respond to training
>maybe science is wrong when it comes to building muscle
ironically the bulk of the literature shows that frequency doesn't matter much, however we know this cannot be true because muscle does not grow for the entire week no matter how hard it's trained it just doesn't
>the literature says blah blah blah
>still begging the question
Bro experience > science. Who cares why it works? Maybe the art of muscle growth isn't something you can study scientifically effectively.
>yeah that works until you are intermediate status
Well beyond that.
>the only few studies leading to such conclusions are incredibly flawed and way too underpowered to detect muscle size loss at a fiber level, meanwhile we have plenty of studies showing that individual muscle fibers start shrinking after just 2 days of disuse not only based on CSA chances but also myofibrillar protein synthesis rates
No, YOU do not understand muscle physiology. Any decrease in size in the days after a workout can be attributed to the pump fading. The best metric to use is strength, and that has been shown to maintain itself for several weeks after a workout.
One example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23529287/
From my own firsthand experience, I have taken two weeks off from the gym and set a PR when I got back, so I know it isn't true.
>there's no hard number you could train a muscle every day if and make gains just can't train it that hard
Okay, now I know you simply have no experience. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say you've been training for <1 year. Have you ever tried full body every day? If you did, you would know that it is completely ineffective beyond novice level.
>bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy
what is good for hypertrophy?
>using science to prove science
Thanks for the circular argument.
The big dudes I've seen reject science and use brosplits, so maybe science is wrong when it comes to building muscle.
>no it isn't
Body. Post. It.
you clearly don't understand muscle physiology.
>brosplits require you to detrain between same-muscle sessions
kek
>bro splits aren't good for hypertrophy
they are. any advantages higher frequency has is only matter short term, and the advantages of a lower frequency is more important long term. rate of gains may be slightly higher with high frequency, but training has hugely diminishing returns over time. so over a couple of years there are either no differences, or an advantage to low frequency due to less chance of overuse injuries or reduced gains from overtraining/underrecovering. almost all studies are a couple of months long at best...
Don’t listen to him. He’s a fricking dyel who can’t even bench 1pl8.
He’s a contrarian simple as
Bro split training is training your muscle once a week. How exactly are you gonna get more volume doing that? Unless brosplit is just a buzzword to use like you are doing with science based which apparently just means low volume/frequency.
Bro split is high volume low frequency. Lots of exercises on the same day but lots of time between days. Good for hypertrophy but shit else wise.
>Bro split is high volume low frequency
NGL I made my permagains in high school on something like PxPxLxx
Annihilate the muscles, feel soreness in every fiber, do it again a week later
Maybe my understanding of a bro split is different than other anons, but I assumed it was a 3-5 day split that hit certain groups twice a week. Working on an upper lower split right now
It's mostly how they're mathed out. Science routines usually focus on compounds. Which means they're counting bench as like 1 set for chest and 0.5ish for tricepts so for like every 2 bench sets one set of tricept extensions.
In a brosplits you'd just do a chest isolation and a tricept isolation and not approximate carryover. Which works it's just not remotely time effecient but it's great if you use machines or are otherwise scared or too weak willed to get the majority of your volume through compounds. You can apply the same concepts to any split though.
>Bench press on Monday (Chest)
>OHP on Wednesday (Shoulders)
>Dips on Friday (Arms)
>Bro, that's only once a week per muscle group
People think that brospit is a dumb program because of people like you.
in reality you have about the same amount of bullets in both guns.
I switched from PPL to bro split because arms were lacking a lot, bro split worked much better for me
>PPPP
Bullets dont rise after being shot out of a barrel
I am doing 8-12 working sets per muscle group per week. I tried twice that and havent noticed better gains. I keep doing less and there is nothing you can do about it.
what is the standard brosplit?
chest+shoulders
back
legs
arms
?
Both PPL and Brosplit gets mogged by Full Body.
Prove me wrong.
you cant progress on full body past a certain point. your cns load gets bigger the more weight you lift.
push cardio pull cardio legs cardio nothing, repeat
works for me
Okay I don’t care I just try to put more weight on the bar or do more reps with the same weight every week
Is push(inc squats), pull (inc Deads) + one other full body day of the actual muscle you want to grow (shoulders, bi's, tris, chest, lats) a decent idea for a natty?
The point is to maintain what is already too big (legs) 1x per week and grow whats lagging by hitting 2x per week.
Currently on a cut and but making very good psuedo-noobie gains (built very good base in late-teens/early twenties).
>eat a bunch of protein
>fwb 2-3x a week
>gains
shrimple as
which kind of routine should i follow if i want something braindead that doesn't require me autistically choosing specific lifts every day like this hyper optimized ppl shit
i just want to lift and do cardio every day
Do mine
>3x10 chest exercise, mostly bench
>3x10 leg exercise, mostly leg press
>3x10 back exercise, mostly lat pulldown
>Add whatever accessory isolation according to your free time, mostly arms and shoulder
>3xWeek
Ez
my ChatGPT routine because I can't be consistent about PPL:
>Mon: Chest/tris
>Tues: Back/bis
>Wed: Swimming 30 mins
>Thu: Shoulders/Tris (I will throw in a few chest sets here too)
>Fri: Legs
>Weekends: off
Look at that little guy
Right now I'm doing ULULXXX but anons said that would turn me into a T-Rex. Should I do pushups on Friday? Friday and Saturday? I can only go to the gym four days a week.
(U is bench, curl and ohp L is squat, row and deadlift)
brosplit is actually scientifically proven to work, i.e. 10-20 weekly sets per bodypart (it made no difference for muscle growth how many times per week), sets of more than 5 reps but never going nowhere near 35+reps muscle endurance teritory, less than 6 sets per exercise, so each sets is within 3 reps to failure, without junk volume. all of this is pretty much ideal for hypertrophy.
*anywhere near
>less than 6 sets per exercise
its 6-8 sets per muscle GROUP before severe diminishing returns
multiple exercises make it a lot better than e.g. german volume training, where the first sets are miles from failure. not as optimal as distributing the volume per muscle group into multiple workouts, but makes almost no difference for hypertrophy in practice. they actually checked the effect of different training frequencies on hypertrophy several times, e.g. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36228016/ and there was barely any difference shown in each one. there are some studies showing that more frequent training is significantly superior for strength, though, which isn't suprising,
you're right it could be effective, but DAMN are you needlessly wasting literal years of your life for a myriad of unnecessarily light sets. just be normal and do 8-9 sets close to failure instead of 20 of this bullshit.
Big 4 split is where its at
>squat + rdl + vertical pulls + bis
>bench + ohp + horizontal pull + tris
>dl + front squat + vertical pull + bis
>ohp + more bench + horizontal pull + Tris
Ez
That... actually looks kinda cool. Except for the Dl + front squat, seems better to go for leg press + extensions
After I couldn't cram everything I wanted to into three full body days without 3 hours straight of frazzling my CNS I now do some weird moron 4 day a week split, seems to work. Most of this is 3*10 (more sets on biceps)
>Day 1
Chinups
OHP
Rows
Biceps & forearms
Core
Back extensions
Delts isolation
>Day 2
Dips
Lunges/squats
Pullups & lat pulldowns
Incline bench & flyes
Delts isolation
Triceps isolation
Forearms
Core
Then a day off, then repeat, then two days off and it's the next week. I might sneak in once or twice a week extra for arms, delts, calves, recovery/stretching etc. Calves, ab/adductor, neck etc are sprinkled in throughout the week.
Four days a week is the best balance for me between my job and running and still resting. I do upper/lower with one day focusing on chest/shoulders/quads/hams. Horizontal pulls are on upper days, vertical pulls on lower days. First lift is 5/3/1, every other lift is 3x10.
>bench, db bench, one handed seated cable rows, db lat raises, face pulls
>front squat, back squat, lat pulldown chin grip, barbell back extension, pullups at home
>ohp, db ohp seated, one handed db rows, db incline, chest supported row machine
>rdl, barbell back extension, lat pulldown regular grip, back squat, chinups at home
If I had a home gym I would be more open to a 5 or 6 day PPL split or something that would let me work in oly lifts too since I like them, but that's not reasonable right now.
So I'm working on a block periodized program. First block is full body strength base training with cardio, second block is hypertrophy and power, and third block is maximum output.
First block:
>full body 3x weekly with sprint days 2x weekly
>almost strictly antagonist supersets and tri sets
>rotating set scheme between strength (6x4), hypertrophy (3x12), and endurance (1x24 / AMRAP) for OHP, bench, and squat / DL
>main leg alternating between DL / squat; support leg is mainly leg press and leg curl
>deload every 6 weeks with 1RM retest day
Second block
>UL split 6x weekly
>rotation of isolations and compounds to hit muscles differently
>alternating regular / power weeks
>deload every 4th week
Third block:
>haven't gotten that far yet
Thoughts?
A: Chest + Biceps
B: Legs
C: Shoulder + Triceps
D: Back
hello fellow dorian yates enjoyer
Why not broscience split?
Energy is limited, you have a limited number of "bullets" so you have to try and hit most of them.
Bottom is only possible with roids.
chest/back
mix both with some triceps/biceps
works for me
legs? I ride bicycle to work
Why do the gays saying it’s “too much volume” never post body to prove the superiority of their split
>train PPL
>small arms compared to the rest
>train UL
>have to spend 2 hours in the gym, recovery sucks
>train bro split
>junk volume past a point
What is the best routine seriously. I just care about looking like I lift clothed
Have you considered going up to a guy at the gym who looks like you want to look and asking what his routine is?
I don't talk to anyone in the gym
consider starting. Human's greatest strength is communication and co-operation
>train UL
>have to spend 2 hours in the gym, recovery sucks
Neither of those things are true. I am
and spend an hour per workout, and I think I rest more than average. Recovery is fine, and I feel it targets arms plenty. I had an injuiry recently and can't do dips, but they would replace the db incline bench otherwise. Curl and tricep extension isolations are gay.
>Curl and tricep extension isolations are gay.
you almost had me convinced
Nah, I fixed it for you
>Verification not required.
I don't like this analogy. That minigun is approximately 100x more expensive than the bolt-action, and you're probably using up 200x more ammo.
>CPCPCP
MODS
Consistency matters way more than routine.
this. I can't get over my routine ADHD and constantly tinkering, switching things up, etc.
A split is not a training style
That's because science based training and nutrition is stressful and neurotic. It should be done every once in a while as way to get organized.
"Bro-split" is a way of life that integratestraining, nutrition and rest into your routine and helps poeople be happy and not overthink or waste energy by constantly thinking boaut macros or the extra miligrams you weigth or can lift.
Science based lifting tells us that nobody is ripped because they lift weights, you've actually got it backward:
Ripped guys are just more likely to start lifting weights.