According to?

According to IST you need a strength base before training for hypertrophy. According to Reddit that is false.

Who is correct?

  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Chicken or egg? Just do both or alternate

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I've been liftin for 10 years and I have no idea what hypertrophy means

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      You don't need a strength base or ever do less than 10 reps. But it is a good
      idea to learn how to squat, deadlift, press, pullup, row, etc, rather than only ever doing machine exercises.

      Muscle growth.

      Do you guys all train for hypertrophy? Why? Isn't both training for stength or endurance preferable to training for looks?

      If you train for muscle growth, you'll also get stronger. There isn't a meaningful difference in strength between training with 5 or 10 reps over longer periods of time.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >If you train for muscle growth, you'll also get stronger.
        I could just as easily say the opposite. If you get strong (and still stay lean), there's no way you won't look good.
        >There isn't a meaningful difference in strength between training with 5 or 10 reps over longer periods of time.
        It's not just about the rep range though. It's also about what weights you're doing those reps with. One guy benches 1 plate for 10 reps and another guy benches 2 plates for the same amount...who is gonna have the bigger chest?

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Do you guys all train for hypertrophy? Why? Isn't both training for stength or endurance preferable to training for looks?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Isn't both training for stength or endurance preferable to training for looks?
      In what world? Absolutely not. The functional strength and endurance needed in real life situations is achieved in 3-6 months of lifting just as a side product doing whatever.

      You don't need to do SS+GOMAD to mog normies and carry heavy grocery bags without a cart, or pick up furniture. The bar for functional strength is so incredibly low. You will achieve it tenfold just by training for hypertrophy. It's all about looks. This is not even a question. Of course train for hypertrophy and looks. The Why shouldn't even exist. I don't live in medieval times.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Isn't both training for stength or endurance preferable to training for looks?
      You will still gain strength and especially endurance on hypertrophy training. It's never either-or unless you do extremely specialized sports routines.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Kai is a heavy roider, everything works for him. Yates lifted heavy compounds with accessories on a much smaller stack and looked way better

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yates didn't squat yet he still had massive legs. According to IST you can't make lower body gains without squatting.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Been saying this for years but IST censuses have routinely shown that 80% of the board can't do 1/2/3/4 for a self reported 1rm. Good advice/actual lifting knowledge is the last thing I expect to see on here.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Been saying this for years but IST censuses have routinely shown that 80% of the board can't do 1/2/3/4 for a self reported 1rm. Good advice/actual lifting knowledge is the last thing I expect to see on here.

        How would y'all structure a leg day?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >using roiders as standards
        he could run for 20 minutes a day and make better leg gains than me or you ever could with any exercise

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    but I want strength endurance and looks

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    No fucking idea what youre even talking about. I just go to the gym 6 times a week, pick heavy things up and put them down. Judging by how much my lifts went up the fact that i now have stretch marks all over my body after doing this routine for 7 months its safe to say that what i am doing is working for me

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Your first routine should be a strength style routine. This is simply because he he it's fun to pick heavy thing up, along with the importance of form, learning general gym knowledge, and building a DOM tolerance to the lethal hell 12-15 leg press will give you.

    After roughly 3-6 months of strength, hypertrophy can just completely take over.

    The average retard just does 1-6 or 6-20 sets anyways and doesn't minmax their routine though.

    With that being said 1-8 is for strength, and 8-15 is for hypertrophy. In theory that means 8 is optimal for both. If you do 7,11,or 13 reps, kys.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The average retard just does 1-6 or 6-20 sets anyways and doesn't minmax their routine though.
      What do you mean by this?
      >With that being said 1-8 is for strength, and 8-15 is for hypertrophy. In theory that means 8 is optimal for both.
      10 is, see image.
      >If you do 7,11,or 13 reps, kys.
      9 reps tho

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Reps*

        Always sworn I've read 8, musta been wrong,

        9 is fine

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Always sworn I've read 8, musta been wrong,
          Probably not wrong. Different sources claim different optimal reps. I like the reasoning of the source behind that graph and the simplicity of telling people to either do 5, 10, or 15 reps depending on the lift.
          Here's the source btw: http://www.strongur.io/using-exertion-load-to-predict-metabolic-stress/

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    or just be like me and train both at the same time

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    They have it backwards, you need a hypertrophy base so you can get stronger without looking like shit

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I saw an absurd increase in all of my measurements as well as responding far better to bulks by doing more hypertrophy training
    I still do one strength ego exercise each session, but everything else is mostly isolated and going to failure as much as I can or near to it
    The difference is night and day.
    Fitness is over complicated, if you want to look good you just go as hard as you can on good exercise selection.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Same here. But I also do lighter sets to failure of the compounds once a week and noticed the heavier sets became way easier, also fixed my form on squats and deadlifts.
      Any accessory lifts I do 3x10 and then a set till failure. Wish I had been doing this a lot earlier.

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Within the first few months, you're not building muscle but helping your nervous system adapt to a workload it never experienced. For that reason alone, strength routines are better early on.
    At the same time, you need to learn certain movement patterns (squats, diddies, presses) you should know but dont due to sitting on your ass since forever, and for that reason, strength routines with low reps and few exercises are better.

  12. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >According to IST you need a strength base before training for hypertrophy.

    I have never read this anywhere on IST

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      You haven't been here long enough. People used to act like you would make zero gains as a natty if you didn't train for strength

  13. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    If you want to get big you need to get stronger first. No one ever got big benching 100lbs for 12 reps.

  14. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    You have to be strong enough to induce hypertrophy. But you can get there without being a powerlifter. You just start with replicable sets for practice like 3 sets of 10 and shit and save the hardcore ramp up to one set to failure and dropset till you want to die workouts for when you're a big boy.

  15. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >start meso at weight you can do for 8-10 reps on the first set
    >add weight each week, the reps will fall off faster than you can progress in strength
    >once you're hitting 3-5 reps per set reset the weight to a new, higher 8-10RM and begin again.
    >take regular deloads to manage fatigue
    Wa la

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >do this meso cycle
      >reset weight to a new, higher 10 RM
      >can't get 10 reps
      what then?

      I've been doing 10 RM on my first set on squats, but going to failure decreases performance on subsequent sets. I end up doing 7 reps on my second set, and 5 reps on my third. But when I don't go to (or very close to) failure, it's hard to judge how many reps in reserve I would've had (thus how hard I've been pushing myself). This is less of an issue with lower reps, but I'd like to train ~10 reps (for size gains).

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        If you can't get 10 reps on the first set go a bit lighter or accept a shorter meso. The point is to keep progressing weight so long as you hit the minimum total reps. So on 3x6-8, if you hit 18, go up the next time. Doesn't matter if it was 6/6/6 or 8/5/5 or anything in between. And diminishing reps are fine. Imo its a sign you're pushing yourself properly, though if your drops are really extreme then learn to keep gas in the tank on your opener. What I like to do is go RPE 8 on my first set (sometimes 3 sometimes 4 total depending on how I feel going into the meso and how many different exercises I wanna do) then end my last set on RPE 9, or where I feel the next one is 50/50. Sometimes I overshoot and take it to failure but its always on the very last set of my big daily compound so its no big deal. The rest of my work after that is in the 8-12 range so its weight thats heavy enough to drill technique and promote hypertrophy but a weight that I can always hit every single rep with perfect form.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If you can't get 10 reps on the first set go a bit lighter or accept a shorter meso.
          Yeah, but what if after the meso cycle your new 10 RM is equal (or even lower) than your previous 10 RM? How does this method deal with stalls or regressions? Just lowering the weight or doing a shorter meso cycle doesn't achieve anything.

          >And diminishing reps are fine. Imo its a sign you're pushing yourself properly, though if your drops are really extreme then learn to keep gas in the tank on your opener.
          Would you consider 10, 7, 5 to be too large of a drop?

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            If your new 10rm is equal to or lower than the previous one, evaluate your recovery (food, sleep, and regular deloads). If its been on point, go from your new lower 10RM and see if the extra week or two helps you reach a higher peak weight than last time. If it doesn't and you hit a rut, swap the lift for a variant when you reset and start a new progression. When you stall on that, come back around to the first lift, fresh and ready to set new PRs.
            Alternatively use your 10RM number and hop to a different program for a while then cycle back. I like to do this as a default training method when I'm inbetween other programs since its a good mix of volume and intensity (you can set the rep targets however you want for your goals btw) and it gives you the RM numbers to transition to any other % based routine.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              Seems kinda bad to handle stalls/regression by switching exercises instead of changing number of weekly sets.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Its an excellent long term progression strategy because the strength you gain on similar lifts will transfer across to the one you want to target and it'll still build muscle if hypertrophy is your goal. And again, this is a baseline year round approach. If you're interested in peaking your 10RMs on the big 4 you could try adding more sets of the lift on different days as assistance, adding more assistance exercises to target weak points in the lift (floor press for bench lockout for example), just running a proper LP, or running a program specifically designed to bring that lift up (Smolov Jr for bench as an example).

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                >excellent long term progression strategy
                I don't think so. Switching exercises won't help if weekly volume is too low or too high.
                >assistance exercises to target weak points in the lift
                Don't really exist. Sticking points are already trained by the lift itself. Only thing I can think of where targeting weak points can help is if you do a lot of assistance work on the prime mover of an exercise but nothing for the other muscles. E.g. tons of chest flies and no triceps exercises may give lockout trouble for bench.
                Thanks for your time though.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >So on 3x6-8, if you hit 18, go up the next time. Doesn't matter if it was 6/6/6 or 8/5/5 or anything in between.

          Damn. I've never thought of it as total reps. That's a hell of a lot easier way of thinking.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            Giving credit where its due, the idea comes from the guy behind gzcl. Its called VDIP and its designed for powerlifting, so the top sets are usually significantly lower total reps- down to 10 across as many as 5 sets. The methodology is super solid though and works for whatever rep scheme you throw at it.

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              >> down to 10 across as many as 5 sets.
              So a goal of 50 reps or 5 sets to get 10 total reps?

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                No, 5 sets to hit 10 reps, so like heavy doubles

  16. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Always do the opposite of what garden gnomes say.

  17. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >lift heavy weights lots of times
    >gain lots of muscle and strength
    It's literally that easy. That is simply all there is to it. Science fags are fucking retarded.

  18. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    This guy uses baby weights but looks big.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is he being executed?

  19. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just do 4-6 reps per set and quit worrying about this autistic shit. You'll get stronger and bigger.

  20. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >there is no need for a bodybuilder to start with a strength program
    lmao, then you ain't gonna be a bodybuilder

    Strength training also includes a larger gain in neural strength which in the long run means you can lift heavier and expose your muscle fibers to greater tension. More tension means more growth.
    A retard lifting 135x8 will have a smaller chest than a guy who can lift 185x8 because he did his heavy sets of 5 and progressed way faster.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >he did his heavy sets of 5 and progressed way faster
      >progressed way faster
      kek no. doing sets of 10 gives pretty much the same progression rate. there's no meaningful difference if you keep frequency and weekly sets the same. some people would even progress faster with sets of 10 due to higher hypertrophy stimulus from extra metabolic stress and double the amount of total reps.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >doing sets of 10 gives pretty much the same progression rate
        Absolutely not

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          sure it does if you track progression rate as calculated 1 RM.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Still no

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              that's a bro myth.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Then why don't powerlifters just do sets of ten to get stronger? Afterall it works just as well according to you and they could gain some extra muscle on top of their strength.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            meant for

            >he did his heavy sets of 5 and progressed way faster
            >progressed way faster
            kek no. doing sets of 10 gives pretty much the same progression rate. there's no meaningful difference if you keep frequency and weekly sets the same. some people would even progress faster with sets of 10 due to higher hypertrophy stimulus from extra metabolic stress and double the amount of total reps.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              Then why don't powerlifters just do sets of ten to get stronger? Afterall it works just as well according to you and they could gain some extra muscle on top of their strength.

              they should and some of them do. the closer they get to a meet, the lower their reps should be and the higher the weights. but mesocycles with sets of 10 should be included in their overall macrocycles.

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Powerlifting is a specialized sport with a certain look that is wanted. They want to look fat, not muscular. Partly it's their idea of aesthetics, partly being fat gives you an advantage in lifts.

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Powerlifting is a specialized sport with a certain look that is wanted
              Powerlifting is a sport so looks do not matter only performance. They do not want to look fat. Being muscular is prefered to being fat but if they have to gain fat to stay in a weight class they will. Being muscular always helps more than being fat. Being fat does not give an advantage but being sucked down gives a disadvantage.

              [...]
              they should and some of them do. the closer they get to a meet, the lower their reps should be and the higher the weights. but mesocycles with sets of 10 should be included in their overall macrocycles.

              Yes, so we can agree that if you have a certain goal in mind like getting stronger or getting bigger you should specialize, right? Doing sets of 10 does not make you strong. It makes you stronger but gains are being left on the table compared to proper strength training program. Just like size gains are being left on the table of you are doing a powerlifting or strength program. Powerlifters doing hypertrophy training does not mean they are training for hypertrophy. They stil lift for strength on the big 3.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >They do not want to look fat.
                They do, bearmode etc.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Two powerlifters compete against each other. Both are the same height and weigh 205 but one of them is 26 percent bodyfat and the other is 16 percent bodyfat. Now who do you think is stronger?

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                Whichever one has better proportions

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >we can agree that if you have a certain goal in mind like getting stronger or getting bigger you should specialize, right?
                sure
                >Doing sets of 10 does not make you strong.
                wrong
                >It makes you stronger but gains are being left on the table compared to proper strength training program
                It depends on the individual. A good amount of people gain better size and strength with higher reps, just like a good amount of people gain better size and strength with lower reps. Inter-individual variability is largely overlooked in the fitness world, but it matters a lot.
                Also I'm not saying that, on average, people gain more strength only using sets of 10 compared to only using sets of 5. I said that the difference is (very) small. But if your main goal is gaining strength (like powerlifters), doing both sets of 5 and sets of 10 is better than only doing sets of 5. And if your goal is gaining size, doing both sets of 10 and sets of 5 is better than just doing sets of 10.

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                >But if your main goal is gaining strength (like powerlifters), doing both sets of 5 and sets of 10 is better than only doing sets of 5. And if your goal is gaining size, doing both sets of 10 and sets of 5 is better than just doing sets of 10.
                I agree with that

  21. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Almost like bodybuilding and powerlifting and weightlifting are all different things

  22. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'll be honest and say that DYELs who want to immediately start bodybuilding aren't worth giving advice to. Every noob in my experience who starts immediately on hypertrophy will stop working out within 6 months. It's as aggravating as women saying they don't want to "get big". You fucking little gay, you get red in the face and sweat lifting 50lbs, why are you pretending like you're going to actually look good benching 60lbs and doing bicep curls? Oh but you're real smart, you use reddit. You got a PPL split, real nice. HAVE FUN BEING DYEL FOREVER
    >Muh you can build strength doing hypertrophy
    Dude we're talking about guys who start with 11 inch biceps weighing 120lbs soaking wet, do your 5x5s for the first year and shut the fuck up

  23. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    You should just pick heavy stuff up and set it back down again and repeat until you can't.

  24. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Think of being able to do 3x20 as a badge of honor and being able to add on another 2.5lbs or 5lbs plates to the lift rather than a chore to go through as a bodybuilder. Cruel work that powershitters will never tolerate.

  25. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    You should do it because you look like a fag if you go to the gym and use nothing but machines
    but if you go to reddit for advice you probably already are a fag so what does it matter to you

  26. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    There are no popular full-body hypertrophy routines for beginner. Only splits, and I don't lift hard enough yet to recover for a whole week.
    Maybe it's because it's easier to progress in 2.5kg increments (smallest plates I can use are 1.25) at lower reps.

    I just got back to gym after multiple years of doing fuck all and the only program I liked is Greyskull LP, which is 5+ reps for main lifts and ~10-12 for accessories.
    I can take the same program and just up the reps/lower the weight, but would I progress just as well?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Only splits, and I don't lift hard enough yet to recover for a whole week.
      You can split at any frequency you want. Check this out.
      UxLxUxx
      LxUxLxx
      That's 1.5X per week.

  27. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    according to reddit there's 187 genders and w*man have rights.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      please no racism on IST

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'll stop being a racist sexist nazi bad person on IST when you stupid moron loving gays stop garden gnomeing up the board with stupid fucking women brained shit

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous
    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      women deserve equal rights (and lefts)

  28. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    So compound lifts are better suited for strength, am I getting this right? Isolation would be better for hypertrophy?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Isolations are used for hypertrophy because they allow you to hit muscles which are left behind by compounds. Bodybuilders seek a more complete physique than powerlifters.

      Also, once you are strong enough, you can’t actually do compounds often enough to grow, so you need something to do in the meantime while you’re waiting for your body to recover.

  29. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hypertrophy training makes you stronger in a higher rep range and has more isolations, whereas strength training makes you stronger in a lower rep range. There is some carryover between the two.

    The reason why high reps is good for hypertrophy is because low reps are more taxing, and total volume is a large driver of growth, so high reps allow you to do more sets per week, and therefore, grow more.

  30. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Reddit.
    Literally all sports do hypertrophy as GPP before specialized strength exercises. A "strength base" doesn't exist.

  31. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    You need a strength base or you will hit a wall, but the strength base you need is much lower than 1/2/3/4.

    Press greater than 100 lbs
    Bench greater than 150 lbs
    Squat greater than 200 lbs
    Deadlift greater than 200 lbs
    10 clean pull ups
    Not winded after 10 minutes of moderate cardio

    If you can do the above, you’re strong enough to start whatever path you want.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/3pu7bct.png

      According to IST you need a strength base before training for hypertrophy. According to Reddit that is false.

      Who is correct?

      This is a high iq post. If you played sports in high school and did some basic lifting not really. But if you’ve never done anything and can’t bench 1 pl8 then sure

  32. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    reddit. I tried the fucking sticky and I, literally speaking, didn't get a single pound of muscle in my first 5 months. Did get my lifts to one plate though.2

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